PT ROTS : Anakin vs Obi Wan after Padme choke is underrated

Nope. He can feel as betrayed or as angry or whatever as he wants by Obi-Wan's appearance and whatever conclusions he drew from it. But neither Padme nor Obi-Wan put him in any position where he was forced to choke Padme. Obi-Wan was standing a good distance away with his lightsaber still on his belt. Padme was unarmed and clearly distraught. Anakin somehow from all of this decided that the appropriate response was to choke his wife. No-one else made him do it, it was his choice alone.

It should not need saying, but if you love someone enough to marry them and most especially if that someone is the mother of your children... however angry you are, however upset you are feeling... violence is never the answer. EVER.

 

That sounds a little one-size-fits-all. What if someone has been indoctrinated or brainwashed?

 

Here's what else your logic supports.

"You shouldn't have burned dinner, because you knew your husband would get mad and beat you."

Classic blame shifting.


It's really insane troll logic, that for some reason supports the unjustifiable behavior of Anakin Skywalker.

With this kind of logic, literally anything Anakin does is partially someone else's responsibility....making this whole responsibility idea completely meaningless.

 

There is something slightly unfortunate about the precise timing. I give it that. That doesn't put any responsibility on Obi-Wan, though.

The conversation was going sour before Obi-Wan showed himself, but I've mentioned this before.

 

As I already mentioned, by the time this has happened, Obi-Wan already knows Anakin has murdered several fully trained Jedi and killed unarmed children, he may know *or suspect Anakin has also murdered the Separatist leaders who whatever their crimes were unarmed civilians when Anakin killed them. Whilst the specific timing of his appearance was unfortunate he was pretty much obligated by this point to find and stop Anakin committing more crimes if he could. Given Anakin's moral and philosophical betrayal of the Jedi in addition to his multiple crimes at this stage he can have absolutely no grounds to be accusing anyone else of betrayal or treachery.

Obi-Wan was surely well aware that Anakin in his current situation was likely to react violently to Obi-Wan's presence and was prepared if reluctant to deal with Anakin by force if needed. But given that everything that Anakin had done before joining the Sith had been at least partially to save Padme's life Obi-Wan can't really be faulted for not knowing Anakin had done such an abrupt and complete about-face that he had gone from saving Padme to attempting to kill her* in the space of at most a day or two.

*The fact Anakin attempted to choke Padme is enough to say that yes, he was trying to kill her in that moment.

 

You're conflating responsibility with causality.

I agree with you and others that Obi-Wan is not at all responsible for Anakin choking Padme. That responsibility lies completely and solely with Anakin.

That does not mean, however, that Obi-Wan's presence was not a causal factor in Anakin's decision to choke Padme. It was indeed one factor. Anakin grew incredibly angry when he saw Obi-Wan, as he assumed his presence meant that Padme was betraying him. This precipitated his decision to choke Padme. In this context, Obi-Wan's presence triggered his anger, and in a fit of passion, Anakin channeled that anger in an awful way. So Obi-Wan's presence is essentially one proximate causal factor for Anakin's decision to choke Padme.

But again, that doesn't make Obi-Wan responsible for it. That's all on Anakin, who through his own free will decided to choke her.

Responsibility and causality. Two different things. One is an ethical concept, and the other is valueless.

 

Anakin actually wasn't angry when he saw Obi Wan. He said "because of Obi Wan?". He was in control. Watch again.

MJ

 

He grew angry, and Obi-Wan's presence made him distrust Padme to the point that he felt compelled to almost kill her. So the point stands.

 

"Because of Obi-Wan" was moments before Obi-Wan appeared. He appears just as Padme says "Stop, come back, I love you!" and this is what causes Anakin to snap.

 

Hevy, please look again. Anakin says "because of Obi Wan?" Anakin is looking up and sees Obi Wan. Here's a screen cap at that point. He was in control of his emotions. Then Padme continues....It is clear Anakin is holding off his temper. Only when he shouts "Liar" Padme looks behind, he's then given himself an excuse to explode to frenzy. Anakin has been carefully exploiting the situation.



MJ

 

I disagree, I've watched the scene a lot, and it just looks like he is looking at Obi-Wan. He mentions Obi-Wan by coincidence moments before spotting him, which confirms to him his previous suspicion that it is "because of Obi-Wan" that Padme isn't agreeing.
In the caption you posted he is just tilting his head up as he considers what Padme is saying, then he spots Obi-Wan and looks pissed.

 

I'm watching it now Hevy. It's there. See it.

MJ

 

Trust me, the angry look is the first time he has spotted Obi-Wan. You are just interpreting the head-tilt as looking at Padme's ship.

 

Not interpreting. From the get go he's exploiting her.

MJ

 

I don't disagree with that, he uses Obi-Wan as an excuse to explode, sure. But he doesn't spot Obi-Wan until the last moments.

 

I'd agree with you...if the camera did a sudden pan.

For example, in AOTC, Boba says "Dad, look!" , the camera does a sudden pan and we see Jango turning. When Anakin says "Liar!", it's only when Padme turns then the camera shows Obi Wan.

MJ

 

OK, let me write out the scene here:

<Anakin tilts his head up>
“Because of Obi-Wan?”

<Padme begs him to stop, turn back, she loves him. He looks at Obi-Wan, a flash of rage runs over his face. The camera pans to see Obi-Wan standing near the ramp.>
“LIAR!!”

No offense, MarcJordan, but I think you're creating something that isn't there. Anakin's head-tilt was more of a ‘I'm suspicious of your words’. He was suspecting that Obi-Wan was in on all this, but it wasn't until he SAW the man that he drew the conclusion and snapped.

I repeat: the mere SIGHT of Obi-Wan caused him to enter a frenzy and choke his wife. If he saw Obi-Wan while Padme was pleading with him, why didn't he snap then and there? As the movie made it patently clear, Anakin isn't in control of his emotions at this point.

 

Im not offended at all. I'm judging by camera action. After all, same Director. Can you look at the AOTC scene?

MJ

 

What AOTC scene?

 

Ah. I said earlier when Boba says "Dad, look!" and the same camera does a pan from Boba to Jango.

MJ

 

It would've killed the mood. The point of the sudden camera snap to Obi-Wan was to show how sudden everything was beginning to unravel.

 

What you mean by kill the mood? I'm not seeing what you are getting at. What I see is that Anakin is manipulating the situation to his advantage. Making Padme think that he's got a right to be upset with Obi Wan. Earlier he talks about overthrowing the Emperor and what not. He has no interest with Obi Wan (Jedi) on his side or not. Padme also says "because what you've done, what you've planned to do". Anakin has told her his plans already, so Anakin has already made up his mind regardless.

MJ

 

Didn't Palpatine say "Every single Jedi, including your friend, Obi-Wan Kenobi, is now an enemy of the Republic" ?



MJ

 

Yes, making Palpatine's words a causal factor in Anakin's suspicion of Obi-Wan, which indirectly precipitated his anger-fueled decision to attack Padme. Though again, just to be crystal clear, the responsibility lies with Anakin alone. Though Palpatine is certainly guilty of fomenting extreme violence against the Republic and its leaders...