[ROTS] Now that we've seen ROTS, what do you think of the PT?

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith (Non-Spoilers)' started by bswb, May 24, 2005.

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  1. Philagape Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 2005
    star 1
    As much as I love ROTS, the weaknesses of TPM and AOTC remain, namely the bad writing and direction. Over the course of the PT, Lucas gradually allows more life into his characters, and ROTS took a leap forward in that regard. (And it reduced the cringe moments and characters)
  2. stormcloud8 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2002
    star 4
    One issue that puts the PT above the OT is the amount of death. The characters in the OT are typical action heroes who pretty much survive anything and everything thrown at them. Thus the tension and suspense are a bit lower. In the PT, main characters are dying left and right. It definitely adds to the tragedy.

    Han Solo should have died in ROTJ, like Ford wanted him to. There is no tragic loss in the OT.
  3. Harlowe Thrombey Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 19, 1999
    star 2
    I like TPM and AOTC, but the effect ROTS has on them is two-fold, as some of you have already said. ROTS really completes the prequel trilogy and links it firmly to the OT. A lot of the events seen in I and II have more meaning and are more powerful because of what happens in ROTS. So in that sense, I and II is better. At the same time, ROTS is a such a good movie, that it really contrasts with some of the weaknesses of TPM and AOTC, like pacing, dialogue. I agree with Garth and others when they say that TPM and AOTC does have a lot of chaff, compared to ROTS which is overflowing with critical story. That is why I wish that the editing were a bit better in the first two.
  4. Darth_Banal Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2002
    star 6
    My first thoughts about this topic were how far, far, superior ROTS was than I and II. So many people had thought GL had 'lost the magic' or just was no longer capable of making a terrific film, but then he goes and makes ROTS and pulls out all the stops. Just makes me wonder that if he was capable of blowing us away in III, why weren't the first two of that caliber.

    I agree with a lot of you here, that my appreciation of TPM has grown, even though I really liked it to begin with. In particular I love Qui-Gon even more.
  5. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 6
    I understand why Lucas did the whole formality thing, very mannered, very polite, very reserved, especially with the Jedi, but it made it hard to get into the characters.

    In the OT, everything is always going wrong and people are either whining or yelling at each other - but it works and they seem more human.

    The Jedi aren't very human, are they? It's not until things get desperate that they start to become awesome characters. I loved Obi-Wan, Anakin, Yoda and Mace in ROTS. They were very believable and more exciting to watch.

    And people say Padme was marginalized or whatever, but it was nice to see her exhibiting some actual emotion, both in the scenes with Anakin and the brief political scenes.
  6. kingthlayer Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2003
    star 4
    Han Solo should have died in ROTJ, like Ford wanted him to. There is no tragic loss in the OT.

    Meh, I say he shouldve died in ESB or the whole Jabba sequence would've felt pointless.

    Anyway, I love most of the PT. While I think TPM is pretty weak, I think its pretty necessary. I liked seeing Obi-wan as an apprentice, how Anakin met Padme, how innocent Anakin was, and so on.

    I love AOTC, but it's much creepier and more foreboding with ROTS out.
  7. bswb Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 2, 2000
    star 1
    One thing I've realized is how the goofy or awkward moments in the OT are celebrated and viewed endearingly by this generation while the PT gets slaughtered by critics by them. Only time will tell, but maybe in 20 years the "I don't like sand..." line or the "It's only because I'm so in love with you!" line will get the same warm applause as Luke's Toshi station whine.

  8. That_Wascally_Droid Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 29, 2001
    star 6
    One thing I've realized is how the goofy or awkward moments in the OT are celebrated and viewed endearingly by this generation while the PT gets slaughtered by critics by them.

    Ohhh lessee...
    Rose-colored glasses.
    Nostalgia.
    Double-standards.
    Hypocrisy.
    List goes on really ;)

    And it's not just that. It's in ever aspect.
  9. SabeForQueen Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2002
    Re:IceGambit-
    Yes, Han is unique to the series. I think that's a good thing and makes his impact a little greater. But I don't think PT suffers from his loss. Personally, I thought ObiWan managed a new, maybe older-fashioned "polite" swagger and humor that was very engaging and enlivened the films. In rewatching the OT, I actually spent alot of time missing Obi (even when Alec was present, becoz it's so sad).
    My point is that IMHO some unique characters came out of the PT as well as out of the OT and that it's a good thing they are different but part of the same saga. :) I mean, if you feel like seeing Han, you can still watch TESB...Lucas can't and doesn't want to take that away from us. (I think!) Plus you can see Maul in action by popping in TPM.

    Back on topic: I've always liked the PT but felt both exasperated and defensive about it. AOTC has inspired my most conflicted feelings...half-love it, half-hate it. So many tiny flaws. But generally I don't like to bash becoz it seems a waste of time and contradictory. Now with ROTS, which I finally saw for the second time, I'm very very pleased. I didn't have high expectations. Before, Padme was such a hard to pin down character. Anakin wasn't likable enough...ObiWan was not the main hero...But ROTS has made them all dear to my heart and concluded their stories with such drama that the rest of the PT & even the OT is colored with its emotion. Great film. Great saga. A nice conclusion-> it makes me want to rewind the films again and again and again!
    Like I said before, I actually missed ObiWan and Anakin when watching the OT...even tho I've loved Luke, Leia and Han for a much longer time and supposedly w/greater conviction. IMO, Lucas did us all a favor by making the PT the way he did, even as we thought we hated it. But, ofcourse, I know there's room to disagree. :p
  10. stormcloud8 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2002
    star 4
    I was just watching the duel at the end of TPM, and a couple of interesting observations:

    1) first of all...let's re-state that Obi-Wan is just about the coolest saga character, period. We see him from a young padawan to an old man, always keeping his sense of humor and his courage about him. And Qui-Gon/Obi-Wan vs Maul is the still the best filmed duel in the saga.

    2) Interesting to note that Qui-Gon is the aggressor throughout most of the duel. Maul retreats all the way into the reactor room, Qui-Gon attacking him like a pit bull the whole way. So much for 'knowledge and defense.' I understand the theory about Qui-Gon wanting to tire Maul out so that Obi-Wan could finish him, but at the same time Qui-Gon's aggression in that duel sets him a little apart from other Jedi duels. Especially in The Duel, where Obi-Wan spends the entire time retreating. Maybe another little clue that Qui-Gon is different than your average Jedi, especially in light of his contribution (off-screen...) to ROTS.
  11. Winston_Sith Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 8, 2004
    star 5
    :::I actually missed ObiWan and Anakin when watching the OT...even tho I've loved Luke, Leia and Han for a much longer time and supposedly w/greater conviction.

    Yeah. I too had an "empty feeling" while re-watching the OT after seeing ROTS. It's like these kids (Luke, Leia & Han) have no idea, at all, what happened before they came around, or how they're related to it.

    They're still part of the Saga, but it's like a generation gap thing.
  12. leelee Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 4, 2003
    star 3
    Yeah I felt that way too! I really missed Obi-wan, Anakin and Padme.. but it really made me notice how much like their parents Luke and Leia are. But Han is a little refreshing.
  13. Winston_Sith Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 8, 2004
    star 5
    :::but it really made me notice how much like their parents Luke and Leia are.

    Luke definitely has his father's eyes and facial expressions in his - and his mother's height.

    I think that Bail probably tried to raise Leia so that she would grow into the image of Padme, so that's no shock.

    :::But Han is a little refreshing.

    True, but Obi-Wan is the Han Solo of the PT. I thought the whole sequence where Obi-Wan encourages Anakin to "Enjoy your *glorious* day with the Politicians." (or whatever he really said) was very Solo-ish.
  14. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 6
    sorry, storm - just saw ROTS again in the theatre and The Duel is still my favorite duel.

    It might have been better if it wasn't QUITE so intercut with the Yoda/Sidious duel, but not by much.

    I loved the TPM duel, but The Duel takes the cake - especially because of the emotional factor.
  15. stormcloud8 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2002
    star 4
    Yes, the emotion of The Duel in ROTS is certainly the tops, but visually the one in TPM can actually be seen very clearly. It is well lit and the moves are real, nothing close-up or digitial or fake, at least as far as I know. That's why I like it best.
  16. hippie1kenobi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 28, 2002
    star 4
    Yeah, I see what storm is saying, that TPM duel is the best filmed duel. As an action sequence it is easier to follow and has better staging and pacing than The Duel. It is just long enough to leave you wanting more.


    On the other hand, as a story/emotional sequence, The Duel wins by a mile. The things that weight it down as an action sequence; the lighting, staging, dramatic angles and setting; are the things that make it hit home emotionally.
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