ROTS related to Othello in any way?

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith' started by morpher-2005, Dec 10, 2005.

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  1. morpher-2005 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 19, 2005
    star 4
    So, Anakin is Othello, Palpetine is Iago, Padme is Desdemona and Obi Wan is Cassio.
    ???
    Obviously Iago (Palpatine) twists the mind of Othello (Anakin) to make him think that his wife, Desdemona (Padme) and Cassio (Obi Wan) are betraying him.
    just a thought
  2. JMN77 Jedi Youngling

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    Sep 19, 2005
    star 3
  3. Alpha-Red Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 25, 2004
    star 5
    I believe I read about this on Wikipedia's entry on Palpatine.
  4. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    There is a bit of a similarity, but not to the same degree that Shakespeare did it.
  5. sithrules70 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 28, 2005
    star 4
    i see the similarity but very subtle
  6. voodoopuuduu Classic Trilogy Trivia Host

    Game Host
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    Mar 22, 2004
    star 5
    And Anakin is black (when in the suit). :D I think you can strech to find similiarities, but you can also make it fit other stories too.
  7. yoshifett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2004
    star 5
    Yes, I believe they are second cousins.
  8. TheCRZA Jedi Master

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    May 29, 2005
    star 4
    Damn you Yosh! You beat me to the joke!
  9. sithrules70 Jedi Master

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    May 28, 2005
    star 4
    i was thinking about it too :_|
  10. PADMELUVA Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2004
    star 4
    even before i saw the movie...i have always seen the connection. funny how both desamona and padme both die due to strangulation
  11. TheCRZA Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2005
    star 4
    Only, Padme didn't die of strangulation. She lost the will to live.
    She would have died whether Anakin choked her or not.
  12. sithrules70 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 28, 2005
    star 4
    CRZA speaks the truth,the choke means squad regarding her death,is there only to show how far he had fallen
  13. RebelScum77 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 2003
    star 6
    There are quite a lot of similiarities between Shakespeare and Star Wars. Lucas was using many of the same character archetypes as Shakespeare. Palpatine is similiar to Iago, also to Lady Macbeth... Padme to Desdemona and Ophelia... Anakin to Macbeth and Othello etc. Even the Force is a comparable supernatural element to Macbeth's witches or ancient oracles. Star Wars and Shakespeare both share similiar elements with classical myths and stories. This is probably why the characters and storyline of Star Wars resonates so strongly with people, the structure is built upon archetypes that have existed for centuries.
  14. PADMELUVA Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2004
    star 4
    it was a generalization guys, gimme a break.

    also desdemona and othellos relationship was a secret at the start of the play.


    desdemona was the daughter of a senator, while padme actually is one.
    anakin and othello both lash out at their wives because of misconstrued signals of betrayal and mistrust.
  15. TheCRZA Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2005
    star 4
    This is probably why the characters and storyline of Star Wars resonates so strongly with people, the structure is built upon archetypes that have existed for centuries.

    Millenia, really. Since Uncle Will was so greatly influenced by Roman and Greek
    storytelling/myths... one can trace SW back through the tradition of western
    storytelling. I need more hobbies...

    But yea, there's a connection there because of the general thematic, er, uh, themes.
  16. Dezdmona Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2005
    star 4
    I believe that the mythmaker in Lucas was influenced by Shakespeare's Othello for the outline of the interactions of Anakin (Othello), Padmé (Desdemona), Obi Wan (Cassio), and Palpatine (Iago). (BTW, Othello starts in the middle of the story, then goes back and provides the background, before it finishes.)

    I will briefly review the emotional aspects of the actual play and see if any of it sounds vaguely familiar (no doubt I will leave something out (and GL would not follow the story exactly, but there are some pretty fascinating thematic coincidences)?

    Othello is raised a slave, grows up to be a (good-looking) hero of many battles. Othello falls madly in love with Desdemona and they marry. They hardly know each other. Desdemona is from a wealthy family of status. It is a profane/obsessive love. Iago (which means "two faced") decides to bring about Othello's fall by convincing him that Desdemona has betrayed him with Cassio (his lieutenant and friend in many battles). As Iago continues to whisper to Othello throughout the play and stage various situations to convince him of Cassio & Desdemona's betrayal, Othello becomes more confused and angry. Eventually he casts out Cassio and chokes Desdemona to her death*. Othello has lost all emotional control. In Desdemona's dying breath she absolves Othello of all blame for his actions. Both Cassio and Desdemona were loyal to Othello. It was Iago who was the deceiver. Othello ultimately discovers the truth, and wants to kill Iago, Cassio survives. Othello commits suicide in his grief that Iago has betrayed him and he has killed his beloved wife. The play closes with Iago recommended for execution at some later time.

    Desdemona appears so forthright and outspoken in the early Acts but then seems to take on a new persona in latter Acts submitting even to the point of death to her husband's tyrannical and ireful impulses, she is a woman who cannot live without loving.

    Iago is generally agreed upon as one of the more evil people in great literature; there is really nothing redeeming about him.

    *There is some literature speculates that Othello does not complete the murder of his wife but that she revives and dies of a broken heart.

    Most of the analogy plays out on the final scene on Mustafar where Anakin see's Obi Wan behind Padmé on her starship thinking that she brought him to Mustafar and she has now betrayed him. Then he force chokes her, etc.... It was not until that final scene played out that the analogy became obvious. As previously mentioned, it's just one of many thematic plot devices GL uses that are overlayed together.

    GL has been influenced by many sources in the creation of these films (as has been mentioned before), old movies, religions, and literature; sometimes within the same scene.

    MOYERS: Joseph Campbell once said all the great myths, the ancient great stories, have to be regenerated in every generation. He said that's what you are doing with Star Wars. You are taking these old stories and putting them into the most modern of idioms, the cinema. Are you conscious of doing that? Or are you just setting out to make a good action-movie adventure?

    LUCAS: With Star Wars I consciously set about to re-create myths and the classic mythological motifs. I wanted to use those motifs to deal with issues that exist today. The more research I did, the more I realized that the issues are the same ones that existed 3,000 years ago. That we haven't come very far emotionally.

    Of Myth And Men
    A conversation between Bill Moyers and George Lucas on the meaning of the Force and the true theology of Star Wars
    Time Magazine, April 1999

  17. JONJEDI Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2002
    star 5
    I noticed the connection too. Like the way Padme and Anakin are so in love at the start then by the end Othello is all full of hate as is Anakin and both believe there wives are betraying them yet the wife is totally innocent. Also Iago and Palpatine, both opperate from the shadows and control everything that happens in the story.
  18. darth_almond Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2005
    heh, when i first saw this thread i thought you meant Othello the board game.
  19. Obi-Chron Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2003
    star 4
    JEJ played Othello a number of times. JEJ voice the helmeted Vader!
  20. Ceethreepio Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2003
    star 5
    It is also a lot like other stories just you have to know how to look.
  21. Lyvia Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2005
    star 2
    Padme didnt die of strangulation or because of the man she loves she dies because of her own weakness
    There is no villain like Iago and to compare him to Palpatine whose manipulations are weak and only take 5secs is quite insulting to Shakespeare. Iago was a mastermind and it was shown what a grat mastermind he was the only reason it is beleived that Palpatine was so good is because it is stated. "Palpatine is an evil man who manipulates and is ruler of an entire galaxy" with Iago we were shown how good he was instead of having it just stated. Plus Palpatine never tried to make Anakin think that Obi-Wan and Padme were betraying him, he only used Anakins lust for power and turned him against the jedi. There is still no clear reason why Anakin turned against Obi-wan...he was just his friend one second and his enemy the next. Othello's murder of Desdemona was calculated and planned, Anakin's was just another one of his hissy fits. Shakespeare was a master of speech, plot, and personality its truly an insult to compare him to George Lucas who admits he sux at writing. There are very little similarities between the two stories only the slave aspect and a lover who chokes his wife; thats where it ends. Iago is no more like Palpatine than Hitler was; Iago didnt want power he just wanted to destroy people and took pleasure in it. Yes I am very defensive of Iago because I had to write a paper on him and I also really like the character.
  22. Dezdmona Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2005
    star 4
    ...actually that's not entirely true...(it just took too much away from Anakin's story), GL actually had this idea as a subtext, but dropped the idea in the final drafts of the script...


    Padmé's funeral dress was very Ophelia -

    a famous painting of Ophelia:
    Sir John Everett Millais's Ophelia is surrounded by lush, blooming nature.
    Shakespeare's Ophelia, mad with grief, falls while picking flowers. Millais presents her floating in the water. The garland of flowers she picked is floating in the water with her. He carefully renders the poppies and violets as symbols of her death and faithfulness.

    Padmé's funeral dress is designed to look like water and she has flowers floating around her face.


    [image=http://www.tate.org.uk/ophelia/images/ophelia.jpg]
    [image=http://mr.deeds1.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/.pond/padmefuneral.jpg.w560h747.jpg]
    [image=http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v480/punkboi/Parno2/padme_casket.jpg]

    No one has proposed that GL copied Shakespeare's work exactly, but that he has used themes from historical literature, films and mythology in creating his own hero journey.

    Iago is only one metaphor for Palpatine.


    I would consider the Devil the primary metaphor for Darth Sidious.

    MOYERS: And does your use of red suggest the flames of hell?
    LUCAS: Yes. It's a motif that I've been using with the Emperor and the Emperor's minions. I mean, red is an aggressive color. Evil is aggressive.

    ~George Lucas
    Of Myth And Men
    Time Magazine, April 1999
  23. OBIWAN-JR Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 2002
    star 6
    >>>> Obviously Iago (Palpatine) twists the mind of Othello (Anakin) to make him think that his wife, Desdemona (Padme) and Cassio (Obi Wan) are betraying him.

    This was a theme that was far more prevalent in the original script and edit of the film, but George decided to reduce it's importance in the story once he hit the editing room. There are still traces of the theme wafting through the final film: Anakin's comment about Obi-Wan having been in the apartment, and statements to both Padme and Obi-Wan in the Mustafar landing platform scene are evidence of this. Also the deleted scene on the DVD, in which Palpatine casts doubt on Padme's character, when speaking with Anakin, highlight this further.


    Great posts as usual, Dez.


    -JR :)
  24. Dezdmona Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2005
    star 4
    The interesting thing about Star Wars - and I didn?t ever really push this very far, because it?s not really that important - but there?s a lot going on there that most people haven?t come to grips with yet. But when they do, they will find it?s a much more intricately made clock than most people would like to imagine.

    ~George Lucas, quoted in J. Windolf, ?Star Wars: The Last Battle,? Vanity Fair, 2005
  25. andkiich Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 2005
    star 1
    All these stories and mythology intertwine. There are not too many ideas left or situations that have not been written about. just about all the original ideas have been used up.
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