[ROTS] ROTS effect on the Rest of the Saga

Personally I've never been bothered by the Ewoks. I grew up with them, and I remember it being so cool having a bunch of teddybears kick the crap out the evil Empire. And that feeling sort of lingers with me still. I like them. The scene with the dead Ewok is so sad.

To me the main problem with Jedi is Jabba's Palace. Don't get me wrong, I love Jabba, I love the rancor, but the rest is just a bunch of muppets. The sequence has not aged well. Plus it has nothing to do with the overall story of the film, it is just about getting Han free from the carbonite. Had it been intercut better with the Empire and the Death Star and the Emperor, maybe even more with the Alliance, it would have worked better.

 

yeah the ewoks don't bug me a whole lot.
the duel bug me in that movie.....

 

menttality -
i never deemed the tusken slaughter as forgivable. its just as horrible to me to watch the little tusken child look when he/she hears his light saber.
the younglings scene is even more intense because they were looking to anakin for help.

 

Very true. Certainly one of the most frightening scenes in SW history. Though there was much talk regarding the fate of the younglings, I never expected such an in-your-face display of it. Not something I ever would have expected from a SW movie!

 

To me the main problem with Jedi is Jabba's Palace.

Same here. I like the idea of it and all, but as you said, the aliens of the Palace really haven't held up too well. And the Jabba story in such a large uninterrupted chunk starts to drag on me after a while, so if it was more intercut with another plot thread going on elsewhere, it might not feel like too much of a diversion of the more important plot: Rebels vs Empire.

 

For me, one of the worst moments in SW is the little music number that was added into Jabba's palace in ROTJ. Nothing makes me cringe like that scene!

 

Edit: Sorry guys I know you're in the middle of discussing ROTJ, I hope this doesn't screw up thread continuity:

I watched the middle portion of AOTC last night. Shmi's funeral scene stands out a lot now. Anakin says how he wont fail again, and admits how upset and tormented he is that he couldn't save her. After seeing ROTS, the scene really foreshadows the reasons for his downfall.

 

^^^ Don't worry about it goodfellas, this is a forum for ROTS discussions after all...

And I agree with you, all Anakin's actions in TMP and AOTC now has so much more foreboding in them.

 

It hurts to think that the innocent little boy from TPM is going to wind up burning on a beach of ash.

 

TPM : Anakin "but I don't want things to change." Shmi "But you can't stop the change any more than you can stop the suns from setting"

AOTC: "someday I will become the most powerful jedi ever, I will even learn to stop people from dying."
"I wasn't strong enough to save you, but I promise, I won't fail again."

haunting words

 

I just finished watching A New Hope a little while ago. I actually understand now why George says it's told through the droids because after ROTS, it is! I look at R2 in a whole different way now. It is interesting how R2 is somewhat stubborn in playing all of Leia's message for Luke and I think in many ways, that has to do with how we last saw him with Anakin, like "I'm not going to show you because you're going to wind up like Anakin." It totally makes sense why he's so happy in the end.

There are other things I noticed too but most of them revolve around R2. The others revolve around thoughts I have about Vader and Leia. It seemed like to me there was a lot more going on with that. I do get why were hear so much of Leia's theme near the end of ROTS. I have many other thoughts too but I'll start with those.

 

I agree marajadebean. I always thought it was strange that R2 does not like Luke (due to 3PO's dialogue). First he says this with Luke in the room:

"Behave yourself, Artoo. You're going to get us in trouble. It's all right, you can trust him. He's our new master."

Then as soon as Luke leaves, he chastises him more directly:

THREEPIO: (to Artoo) Just you reconsider playing that message for him.

Artoo beeps in response.

THREEPIO: No, I don't think he likes you at all.

Artoo beeps.

THREEPIO: No, I don't like you either.

R2 definitely seems to be a little angry at Luke and then when he leaves it almost seems like he feels bad to some extent. A little prejudice left over from his evil master?

Or perhaps I'm reading too much into the little trashcan?

 

I think R2 just wanted to save the message for Obi-Wan. It wasn't for R2 to decide how much Luke should know. He was following his instructions to the letter.

Re: the Ewoks ...
I have no problem with them. They're the hobbits of Star Wars. Their stature doesn't keep them from being determined, cunning warriors. It's not the size of the dog in the fight ........
The Sith's undoing has always been their overconfidence, so to have the Ewoks defeat the Empire is entirely consistent. Real-life history has shown that overmatched natives can repel a stronger invader.

 

menttality, I interpreted his reaction to Luke as that of, "You look like Anakin and I know what he did so how can I trust you." ROTS didn't hint just how close Anakin and R2 were--they were very very close in the novel. Anakin helped to make him more "human." I just think he's afraid of Luke being Anakin, even if it's an irrational fear. He's a droid, he doesn't know any better at this point. Remember, R2 was on Mustafar with Anakin.

Philagape, I understand your thoughts as well and I think to an extent yes, he was saying the message for Obi-Wan because he knows that Obi is the good Jedi. R2 doesn't believe in Luke until they are battling on the Death Star. That's my feeling and especially with his little dance of excitement at the medal ceremony.

 

At first, I was a little annoyed that we weren?t told about Obi-Wan?s assumed alias. But last night, I watched a snippet of A New Hope, and realized that not only am I not annoyed anymore, I?m glad Lucas kept that out of the Revenge of the Sith. I mean, there is a small (albeit very small) revelation when we learn that Obi-Wan and Ben are really one and the same.
Although, I would have loved a scene in any of the prequels where Obi-Wan casually mention a childhood hero he had named Ben, or his favourite drink named Ben or what ever. Would have been nice.

 

One thing that is amazing about this saga is how many of the main characters are killed. It puts everyone in jeopardy, really raises the stakes. Think about TPM, I believe the only people to survive from that film are the droids and (frustratingly) Jar-Jar. Everyone else dies at some point in the saga.

It's really a great piece of work when you make people care about characters and then kill them. Great drama.

 

Definitely, imagine someone who's watching it 1-6:

Start of TPM: Woah, this Qui-Gon is going to be awesome.
Middle of TPM: Woah, Qui-Gon and Anakin are going to kick ass.
End of TPM: ....well i guess Anakin is going to kick ass with Obi-Wan
Start of AotC: Yeah! Anakin and Obi-Wan kicking ass!
Middle of AotC: ....Anakin, what the....oh no wait, yeah he'll still kick ass with Obi-Wan, guess Padme'll too
End of AotC: .....Yoda......can kick ass?
Start of RotS: ...That's more like it, Anakin & Obi kicking ass
Middle of RotS: Obi-Wan kicks ass! Mace kicks ass! Here comes Anakin to kick ass with Mace.....EY WHUT THE...
End of RotS: ........
Start of ANH: .....R2?
Middle of ANH: Yeah, Obi-Wans back in action. Dunno who this Han guy is but clearly, Obi-Wan and Luke are going to kick ass
End of ANH: OOOOBIIII
Start of ESB: Well, i guess Han & Luke'll die too
Middle of ESB: Yoda why are you training him? You know he's either going to become evil or die
End of ESB: I told you so, Han is dead and Luke is another Anakin
Start of RotJ: Luke kicks ass
Middle of RotJ: Ewoks?
End of RotJ: .....Anakin, Lando & Ewoks?

- O_F

 

On my third viewing today, I realized that these lines of dialogue from the Yoda/Sidious encounter (although the second doesn't follow immediately from the first) remind me of "Your overconfidence is your weakness"/"Your faith in your friends is yours" from RotJ, but the roles of Jedi and Sith are reversed.

DARTH SlDIOUS: Your arrogance blinds you, Master Yoda. Now you will experience the full power of the dark side.

...

YODA: Faith in your new apprentice, misplaced may be, as is your faith in the dark side of the Force.

Interestingly, Yoda is right about Sidious having misplaced faith in his new apprentice, but it's decades later that this finally causes the Sith Lord's downfall.

 

I've been thinking of TPM a lot after this film, and I think it's a more important film than I first realized.
It really started when I watched the teaser trailer the other day, when Obi-Wan says "The jedi knights were the guardians of peace and justice in the old republic" and it cuts to a shot of Qui-Gon.

TPM really represents the old republic for me. Even though it is not perfect (it has started to crumble), it's the most accurate view of the republic we have in the films. In AOTC, things really start to get bad.

TPM just represents the innocence (even though there's a very sinister quality underneath it all) of the whole galaxy that will one day be ruled by Sidious.

I view TPM almost as a prequel to the prequels.