[ROTS] The Office Duel - What's the Verdict?

I don't think Palpatine fights as well in enclosed spaces.

His Office didn't really let him use the Force at all, except for Sith Lightning.

Ditto with the Senate basement - he and Yoda probably would have been at a standstill. Once they got into the Senate, the space works to Palps' advantage.

 

Mace had him, but Palpatine improvised fast.

Oh, and Kolar's death is hilarious. Comedy gold. That boy badly needed to get his priorites straight.

 

I think Mace was better with the lightsaber, but Palps could have killed him anytime he wanted to (even GL has said that the Dark Side is stronger), but needed Mace to convince Anakin that the Jedi are plotting to take over (remember how Anakin tells Padmé that he saw Mace trying to assassinate the Chancellor). While Mace looks genuinely tired, Palps is only faking it. Once Mace is thrown out the window, Palps regains all his strength remarkably fast.

 

i think mace had him beat.
i don't like thinking that palps planned or had forseen every sneeze, cough, & potty break.

 

I voted "Too close to call" because I think Mace was better with the saber, but am certain that Palps played him (albeit with risk). The problem for Palps was if he could hold out long enough (and time it right) for Anakin to arrive in time to see Mace standing over and threatening to kill a lightsaber-less Palpatine. Sidious banked his whole plan on two things: Mace's hesitation to kill Sidious immediately (Sidious obviously didn't have that hesitation for Mace) and Anakin's love for Padme (meaning Anakin needed Sidious alive). The first was a pretty safe bet knowing the Jedi Code - even Anakin hesitated to kill a defenseless Dooku. The second was the real gamble. Would Anakin give up all the Jedi and everything he had learned since boyhood for his love of Padme? Judging by how much Anakin struggled with it, I don't think Sidious could have been 100% sure. Luckily for Sidious, I don't think Anakin saw light or dark sides of the Force in Palpatine's office. He saw only Padme. Anakin was the fulcrum around which the whole galaxy turned. Ultimately, Sidious won the battle with Mace hours before when he planted the last touches of the Padme salvation thought in Anakin's head.

Another question, would/could things have gone differently had Mace allowed Anakin to join him in arresting Palpatine? Witnessing the three other Jedi's deaths at the hand of Sidious might well have kept Anakin on Mace's side.

 

Mace would have owned if he didnt have lightning.

 

You can't fake getting kicked straight in your face right next to such a ledge.

Mace had his number.

- O_F

 

Palpatine would never let his face be scarred into oblivion like that. Mace had him, fo sho.

 

The way I understood it, the face-thing happened when Sidious finally just let rip and go full-on Dark Side. Nothing to hide any more, so to speak.

Oh, and...
"No... easier, quicker, more seductive."

That'll do for me!

{||||| ?||} -----------------------------

 

I agree with Ellbobin on this issue.

 

I think Mace beat him with with his saber because they were in an enclosured enviroment where Palpy couldn't use his force powers to full effect. If Mace dueled him in the Senate, Palpy would have owned him fast.

 

I was never a big Mace fan but give the guy some credit. He might not be the most intuitive Jedi but he showed why he's a master.

I think he had Palps beat fair and square. Once the duel was over though, Palps? planning and scheming played poor Mace for a fool.

 

Palpatine would never let his face be scarred into oblivion like that. Mace had him, fo sho.

This is a topic for another thread, but Palpy was not scarred by the Force lightning. If prolonged exposure to Force lightning were enough to do that, Luke would have been scarred in RotJ.

 

Hmmm...difficult to say, DLM.

Luke was being hit (generally) in the torso - maybe he was all disfigured underneath?


What I think is INCONTROVERTIBLE is that the Sith Lightning was arcing back on Sidious and hitting him in the face.

If the Force is a kind of energy, then the Sith lightning is either:

(a) disfiguring Palpatine's face, because the lightning is being reflected directly into his face; or

(b) because he was hiding his appearance with the Force, the Sith Lightning is interfering with that "mask", revealing his true appearance.

But the thing is - the way his appearance changes is slow and looks more like disfigurement - it's not like the mask suddenly drops and there's gnarly ol' Sidious.

On the other hand, the "scarring" is quite symmetrical - which suggests physical features, not disfigurement.

It's a great scene by Lucas.

 

luke was a jedi. perhaps sith lighting effects sith differently.....

 

The big give away that it's his true form, IMO, is that his voice starts going through puberty leading up to the transformation.

Do you gain Sith eyes from getting hit by lightning?

Now, it's obviously meant to be interpreted either way, but Mcdiarmid does say it's his true form in the latest Insider.

BTW, seeing the movie again earlier tonight, it seems even more obvious option 3 is correct.

Mace manages to best Sidious, Anakin arrives, Sidious improvs.

 

I've been arguing this in lit for the past 10 days. Mace won the duel. Palpatine was confident Anakin would help him and put on a show when Anakin came in. But if Anakin had listened to Mace and stayed at the temple Palpatine would have died.

 

Well, Palpatine would have been arrested. I suspect Palpatine would comply with Mace at that point and not escalate the fight with lightnihg.

This way there would still be an opportunity for Anakin to "save" him.

Now, let's say it plays out as it does in the movie up until the point where Sidious stops the lightning and fakes exhaustion. If Anakin never acts there, yes, Sidious is dead.

 

I think that Palpatine was faking the entire time. He could sense that Anakin was arriving, and had to make sure he looked as if he was in danger when Anakin arrived. Since Anakin thought Palpatine was in danger, he was willing to help destroy Mace. He couldn't let the only pathway to saving Padmé be destroyed.

 

I think it was even until anakin stepped in.

 

Well, the fight is clearly a setup to get Anakin in a position where he must choose (when Palpatine talks to Anakin through the force while he's in the council chamber).

Now, Mace does legitametly disarm Palpatine, but it seems to me outright killing Mace was never completely on his mind.

 

Mace was the better swordsman, but Palps was the better manipulator.

 

Watching the movie again, I"m really starting to love this scene. You can tell that even Mace is kind of freaked out by Sidious and confused - what the heck is going on?

I know many people don't really like the character of Mace Windu and/or SLJ, but I always liked him, especially taking out Jango Fett like a punk.

But I really liked him in this movie - he just seems so determined against Palpatine - looking for the Shatterpoint, maybe? I would bet that Anakin is the Shatterpoint of that scene and the entire film...

 

Haha, interesting that you should say that Garth. If my memory serves me correct, Mace (in the ROTS novel) notes that Anakin is THE Shatterpoint when this scene is played out.

I think I must go and read it again.

 

Yeah. A bad quote from memory:

"When Mace looked deep into the Force to see Palpatines shatterpoint, he was directed to the figure striding through the door. Anakin was THE Shatterpoint, and the entire galaxy rested on it."

And then later on...

"Mace had been so busy looking for Palpatine's Shatterpoint, it had never occured to him to look at Anakin's..."