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"Rule of the Two"

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by morpha2, Oct 4, 2005.

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  1. morpha2

    morpha2 Jedi Master star 3

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    Aug 12, 2005
    Does this concept strike anyone else as being somewhat bogus? Like Lucas was just covering his ass so he wouldn't have to complicate matters further by introducing several dark jedi at once throughout the PT?
     
  2. Lord_NoONE

    Lord_NoONE Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 17, 2001
    I don't think it's bogus at all. Look at the story GL was telling: the "lifeblood" of the universe was out of whack, out of balance. There is a Child of Prophecy who could restore the balance, he fell, was redeemed, and then restored balance. The idea of the Rule of Two effectuates a simplification of the storyline, but that simplification is not superficial. The simplification still played a major role that strikes at the heart of the saga. Anakin Skywalker had to restore balance to the force. He did so by turning from the darkness to the light and then destroying the sole remaining Sith. Could he have gone about killing hundreds of dark jedi (EU [face_whistling]) and still accomplished the goal but that was not the essence of the story he was telling. The story's about a personal journey from life to death and then to redemption.

    Had the Rule of Two not played a vital role in bringing this personal story about, then I might agree that it's a bogus plot device, contrived by the flanneled one, to screw us all. Since the Rule of Two was central to the story of the entire saga, the big picture, I totally support the decision and the story told by George.

    :)
     
  3. emporergerner

    emporergerner Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Jul 6, 2005
    I agree with lord noONE



    Emporer Gerner Dark lord of the sith
     
  4. cymbalmonkey

    cymbalmonkey Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Jun 10, 2005
    The Rule of Two makes perfect sense with-in the context of the OT ... we can clearly see in ESB, something was up between Palpatine and Vader ... we learn in the opening crawl that "Vader is obsessed with finding young Skywalker" and goes to Hoth in part because he's sure "Skywalker is with them" ... then he talks with Palpatine Via hologram, and suddenly it's like "really, my master, we have a new enemy?" and now in the DVD version, it's even clearer Vader's playing dumb with Palpatine and he knows it ... then it's finally revealed at Bespin that Vader has been plotting to overthrow the Emperor for some time, and has simply been buying time as Palps' whipping boy until either he himself, or a "powerful ally" (Luke) could best Sidious ... it's clear in this film that Sidious and Vader indeed, intend to turn Luke to the darkside, but to replace the other ... in ROTJ, either Luke would kill Vader, Vader would kill Luke, or Vader and Luke would kill Palpatine (which was what happened ... sort of)... everyone knew this was what would happen, they just never said until Vader is wounded and Sidious wants Luke to finish him ...

    All of this, mind you, is just from the beloved OT -- not the prequels ... I could also make the point that what Lucas means is that the rule of two isn't just a Rule the SITH created for them to remain hidden ... it's a rule that exists even if the Sith no longer follow -- if there are ever more than two at a time, they will split into factions and destroy one another for greater power, ie. if Luke turned to the darkside and Vader survived, eventually Vader or Palpatine would want Luke killed if he became a threat to either, Luke would want Vader or Palpatine dead to gain greater power, and Palpatine would side with one of the other or kill both and gain a new apprentice to protect his position as Master ...
     
  5. solo77

    solo77 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 28, 2002
    1. It's Rule of two (no 'the' in there)

    2. This has been discussed to death in other threads i suggest you use the search button :)
     
  6. Cryogenic

    Cryogenic Force Ghost star 5

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    Jul 20, 2005
    The "rule of two" also establishes an important contrast between the Sith and the Jedi in The Phantom Menace. Both sets of Force adherents train themselves in pairs! However, whereas the Sith Master/Apprentice relationship is a Machiavellian one beset with treachery and backstabbing, the Jedi Master/Padawan relationship is a compassionate one in which knowledge and experience is shared/accumulated freely for the good of both. Symbiosis, man! Lucas seemed to be deliberately highlighting this contrast throughout TPM, drawing our attention to it with DIALOGUE references like those from Yoda ("An apprentice you already have" and "Always two there are...") and VISUAL references like those contrasting shots of Sidious/Maul and Qui Gon/Obi Wan conversing on balconies overlooking Coruscant.
     
  7. morpha2

    morpha2 Jedi Master star 3

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    Aug 12, 2005
    Well, I'd agree with most of what everyone is saying, but I find it farfetched that the Sith have exterminated themselves down to only two. Why can't this "rule of two" exist outside of the Sidious/Apprentice dynamic? Can a Sith master or apprentice really not cooperate with any more than one other Sith, even to reach a mutually advantageous end, without spontaneously murdering the third party? Could two sets of evenly matched Siths not work together, keeping each other in check with their loyalty within and complimentary power without? How do two Sith warriors ever pose any threat to 1000+ Jedi unless one of them commands all of the Republic's resources? No wonder they'd been holding their breaths so long. Just seems kind of silly to me.
     
  8. ObiYodaMaul

    ObiYodaMaul Jedi Youngling star 1

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    May 23, 2005
    It's like this: Darth Bane in EU instituted the rule of 2 because the Sith destroyed themselves from infighting. The jedi dispatched the remaining Sith except for Bane. He decided that the only way the Sith could survive is by the rule of 2 so this would not happen again. Also, there is a difference between a Sith and a dark jedi. Sith have what some may call "Unnatural" powers. :eek: Dark Jedi have succumbed to the darkside, but do not know things like how to use Sith lightning, etc.
     
  9. Cryogenic

    Cryogenic Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 20, 2005
    It's a little odd, I'll grant you.

    I can't really explain the "Rule of Two"'s creation - unless the EU explanation suffices. But it makes you wonder how long they kept the rule up for Yoda to remark, "Always two there are..." Always? Clearly, the rule had been going for some time - when the Sith LAST existed - for Yoda to use such a word. However, explaining the RETENTION of the rule after the Sith order was believed destroyed is EASY. Who took the reins and waited in the shadows? Sidious. It was a means of self-preservation for him; a way of keeping himself alive AND minimising the number of people who could "rat him out". What's important is that he was always the master and everyone else was always his apprentice. And, if you cast your mind over the prequels, then that is exactly how it goes: Maul was his apprentice, Dooku was his apprentice and Anakin was his apprentice. Sidious was always the master.

    Really, the "Rule of Two" is almost more thematically important than it is logically important. As previously stated, I think Lucas wanted to deliberately contrast the modus operandi of the Sith and the Jedi in this way. Plus, going back to what I've just said, it may have been easier on multiple levels for Sidious to have had his fellow Sithians at arm's length. Remember that quote from The Godfather? Keep your friends close and your enemies closer. The "rule of two" enabled him to do this. Can you imagine an entire order of Sith running around? It would have been tremendously complicated to orchestrate it all - and incredibly dangerous. Sidious didn't NEED that structure so he didn't utilise it. Remedial logic.

    One of the central themes of Star Wars is the propogation of knowledge and experience. This is explored extensively through visual allusions and dialogue parallels. But there are broader issues at stake, too...

    In the PT, the Light Side fades out because those devoted to it - be they Jedi, senators or ordinary citizens - hold dogmatic beliefs, make bad choices and generally give in to their passions. In the OT, the Light Side starts to shine again because those devoted to it - be they Jedi-in-training, former Jedi masters or wanted bounty hunters - start to dissolve their dogmatic beliefs, make good choices and generally let their compassion guide them. Switching back to the PT, this ties in with Sidious in a very significant way: because the Light Side is fading, the Dark Side, by definition, is growing. It is therefore the Dark Side users who - shock, horror - seem nobler and wiser in the PT. (Qui Gon, a noble and wiser Light Side devotee, is all but forgotten until he makes contact with Yoda at, you've guessed it... the end of the PT/beginning of the OT). Thus, Sidious reveals to Anakin and the audience in Episode III that HE alone has absorbed the knowledge and experience of his former master - and indeed, the entire Sith way of life - and learnt from it. Plagueis was implicitly too trusting; he got too close to the lion and it devoured him. But Sidious knows better. He dangles the meat at his lion(s) from a distance - and neuters its spirit with crushing lies like the notion that the lion killed his lioness. This is Sidious' power. It is also what makes the "Rule of Two" so rivetting. The very fact that it exists (if one actually includes Darth Bane/the EU on this one and only issue) is demonstrative of PROGRESSION: it is something that was invented after an earlier methodology proved flawed. And, layered on top of that, is Sidious' realisation that the "Rule of Two" is itself flawed - until he revises the methodology further and finds a way of "dangling the meat" at a safe distance. Through Qui Gon's help, Obi Wan and Yoda revise their own methodology in the OT, and Luke, a bit like Sidious, revises it further to bring himself, his father and the galaxy the ultimate gifts.
     
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