Rule of Two: Double Edge Sword

The Rule of Two, which was instituted by Darth Bane is a double edged sword, something that trades a strength for a weakness. Mainly, having the Sith be limited to just Master and Apprentice breeds a loss of knowledge gap. If the Apprentice gets a swelled head, and actually kills his master before completing the training...more Sith and Dark Side knowledge goes down the drain. The Sith constantly need to test themselves against each other, to prove who is really the strongest. Which is why the Ancient Sith seemed, were stronger, since they could actually test themselves. By Palpatine and Maul's time, after nearly 1000 years, multitudes of Sith and Dark Side knowledge would have been lost, making his generation of Sith the weakest. At the expense of strength and knowledge, the Sith were kept hidden.

If the Jedi were vigilent, instead of complacent, the Rule of Two would have never worked.

 

Never thought about the loss of knowledge.

 

Holocrons may have made up for it, but there aren't a lot of them out there, most are in Jedi possession. So...yeah, the loss of knowledge is Bane's Sith's hubris.

 

The rule of two is a major reason I am looking forward to reading the upcoming Darth Bane novel. I don't know how much it will touch upon this subject, but I believe that further insight into Darth Bane will reveal just what sort of Sith knowledge passed on to the re-organized Sith order of 2.

Now, I don't necessarily believe that so much knowledge was lost when the order fell apart. Luckily, we have a handy little plot device called a holocron that will take care of that. We know that as late as Dooku, ancient Sith holocrons were employed by the Sith to further their training and knowledge of the Dark Side. Also, the Dark Side focuses more on raw emotion than actual knowledge; something that can be learned without a holocron.

Of course, there can be no substitute for a living teacher. I think the rule of 2 depends solely upon the level of skill and ability of the Master. For the Sith order to flourish, every Sith Master would have to be at least on par with the strongest Sith Lords of old, otherwise the apprentice would have nothing to test himself again except a sub-par master.

I would also like to point out in the ROTS novel that Yoda stated that the Sith order had evolved, changed, in order to defeat the Jedi Order. According to Yoda, the Sith did what was necessary for their survival and the destruction of the Jedi.

And at the end of the day, isn't that all that matters for a Sith?

Not to mention the fact that I imagine many Sith bent the rule; heck, we know that Palpatine pretty much threw it out when the Empire rose. There was no need for it anymore.

 

Wasn't it revealed that the ones in the Jedi's possesion were fakes and that the true ones were still in the hands of the Sith?

 

We know Dooku had a legitimate one during the Clone Wars. I believe the ROTS comic has Palpatine ordering Anakin to retrieve holocrons that may have belonged to the Sith, but they also could've just been holocrons.

 

In DL:RoDV Palpatine sent Vader into the Jedi Temple to ostensibly get Sith Holocrons. However, the holocron were actually fakes and Palpatine had the real ones for ages.

 

...that doesn't even make sense. How could Palpatine have gotten the real Sith Holocrons? Where would he even know where to look?

 

What's the source for that? I know in TOTJ, Odann-Urr (sp?) was in possession of one, but where does it say that the Jedi had a bunch of Sith Holocrons sitting around after Ruusaan.

I think another big challenge to the effectiveness of the Rule of Two is specialization. Imagine if someone like Darth Maul had somehow, successfully broken his chains of servitude to Sidious and offed him. What would happen to the Sith if a single-minded killer with no appreciation for wisdom or deciet had come into power? The Order would be ****ed. Gone would be the wisdom of the ancient Sith (that I'm betting Palps was pretty well-versed in) because Maul is not cut out to obtain the mantle of DLOTS numero uno. He's a Sith Assasin/Marauder for Force sake, and he was second-in-line if Palpatine croaked.

 

...that doesn't even make sense. How could Palpatine have gotten the real Sith Holocrons? Where would he even know where to look?

Darth Plagueis, Onderon, Korriban, Ziost, any other Sith World, stole them from the Temple, random sith ship/wreck, eBay?

 

Dxun has the tomb, not Onderon. Plus, Freedon Nadd's holocron was destroyed by Kun when he destroyed Nadd's spirit. Obtaining the holocrons from sealed tombs on Korriban would have been a challenge, plus getting past the traps....same with Ziost.

 

A challenge that you don't think Sids was capable of? I'll bet that either he or some expendable cronies forced their way in to the tombs. After all, EE shows us that he's as friendly as a live Sith Lord can be with Dead Sith Lords. What's to say that he'd never been there before he started his career as an invading body-snatcher?

 

In KOTOR II, if i remember correctly, the Place in Ixis had a bunch of Jedi artifacts. Not sure if there were any holocrons since nobody ever would tell you what exactly was in there. As for Korriban, we know that Palpatine hung out there from time to time (Empire's End) that and he is Palpatine...so he might have been able to take care of the traps

 

How about those that make you blind to the Force? There are traps in some of the Korriban Tombs which would have made Palpatine the weak, frail old man he would be without the Force.

The Palace on Iziz didn't have any holocrons, just lightsaber crystals and other goodies. No holocrons though.

 

Overall, I believe Darth Bane did exactly what the Order needed in that certain period in galactic history.

 

Palps took out three Jedi masters in about 7 seconds. I think he'd be capable of side-stepping some boobytraps (heh...booby ).

Do you have a list of every defense that every holocron is guarded by? And a specific reason why Palpatine couldn't get through it, or throw a dozen lackies at it until he could? Cause without that proof, I think you should concede Palpatine had the ability to procure at least some holocrons out of thier safe-keeping.

 

Caught them off guard, unprepared for an attack. Really, they were some of the best swordsmen in the Order?

 

I'd assume so, if you'd take them to confront a Sith. They were the best Mace had, and if they were expecting a Sith to just go "Under Arrest? Alright lemme just wipe the Dorito crums off my robes before we go" and not put up a fight, then it's their own fault.

If you don't like that analogy, how about fighting Yoda to a standstill. Hurling Senate platforms at him? Yoda is an extraordinary swordsmen, whom Palpy battled. He threw numerous platforms at the little Muppet (and why Yoda didn't throw any back I don't know, they can't be as heavy as an X-Wing). Surely he could get through many obstacles.

Plus, not every obstacle was physical, there were puzzles and force feats I'm sure, which he would have done with ease.

 

Don't ya just hate that scene? They're Jedi Masters for chrissakes! At least make it look like some of them besides just Mace "bad*** motha****uh" Windu could have stood up to him. Come on, GL, the better they fight, the more talented Sids would look for killing them. In the current version, they might as well be a trio of Younglings. *yawn*

You seem to have major issues with giving Palpatine credit where credit is due. He's the most powerful, most cunning Sith ever. He did what no Sith ever could do: Wiped out the Jedi and took control of most of the Galaxy. I think some little booby trap would be no match for him...actually.

At the same time, he's not gonna abandon what he wants. He'll find some way to get through, even if he has to throw countless troopers into a booby-trapped Korriban tomb or hire the most ruthless bounty hunters in the Galaxy to throw their lives away for his Holocrons.

 

Actually, his Purge of the Jedi wasn't nothing special. Post-Jedi Civil War, there were only about 12 surviving Jedi, if you don't count the Jedi Master's Kreia slayed on Dantooine(after she proved to be the best manipulator Star Wars had ever seen, outdoing Palpatine in leaps and bounds), and not those that the Jedi Exile trained either.

He wasn't the most powerful or cunning. He was the most powerful of his time. There is a difference between all time and of his time.

 

Yeah, I dislike the ease with which he took them down too. About as much as I hate Plo Koon getting show down. Should've reverse him and Ki-Adi-Mundi. Though, you also have to admire how fast he was in that scene. I think GL probably wanted to convey that this old crinkly guy was no one to mes with. Like Yoda flipping around and grunting in Episode 2.

Thanks for the agree, Palpatine would be fine against most booby traps.

No one said he had every holocron though, there may have been an obstacle he could never beat. Maybe the trap guarding his old master's holocron?

 

I suspect that the Vader holocrons were fakes because Dooku had previously raided the Jedi Archives (it was in a Gameboy game....) during the Clone Wars and stolen what real ones the Jedi had.

Sidious claimed that Plagueis had once shown them to him - not that he had them in his possession. Who knows if those were even real. Their location could have been lost when Plagueis died.

 

Right, but that doesn't make Palps any less cunning, any less deadly, and any less able to open a can of whoopass on something in his way to a holocron, especially if he really wants it. He really wanted total control of the galaxy, and he got it didn't he?

 

With plot holes and luck, yeah, he did it.

 

a) explain the plot hole to me

b) I thought we were talking in-universe explinations there

c) There is No Luck, Only The Force