CT Rumor: Disney to Release Unaltered Old Trilogy on BR

1. They are the same films, at different stages of production.
You don't have to see it that way, but I do.

2. I have explicitly told you that I also want this. In what way does that mean that I don't see the advantages of having both editions?

3. The artists are free to do as they please and so are the consumers. I've never said that you have to accept anything.

4. Lets just agree to agree in some ways and disagree in others!

 

In my book, production ends after release.

 

We all write different books.

 

Ridley Scott did that because he got tired of being asked about the cuts of each version and just said, "**** it, put them all out." He just happened to have been supported by the studio.

I personally don't care about versions of films that I never plan to watch anyway. Fans can have whatever they want and protest however they want. But don't expect me to care. As to the list of lost films, that's a bit different since those films either had a release or didn't and weren't taken care. Lucas did take care of his films, he just didn't do it the way fans thought he should.

 

I agree about not caring about versions of the film I never plan to watch. Those are the Special Editions. Yet, I'm expected to love the versions just because Lucas says they are his preferred versions, like a good little sycophant. Well, I prefer a version that doesn't suck. I don't see how putting CGI all over his films is taking care of them.

Star Wars is in danger of becoming a lost film, much in the same way Metropolis almost was. Cut and altered to a much more crap version, and the original elements lost. Yes, we have the Argentina find for Metropolis, but how terrible would it be if in the future the original cut of Star Wars was only a 16mm damaged print stored in some obscure film museum? It could happen. The stock of film used for the OOT was not the of the greatest quality.

Of course, you don't care. I really don't think you understand how important the original versions of the film are. They are the films that won awards and awakened a sense of wonder in the American public. They helped push us out of the dark grim and gritty 1970s. They should be available to the public, and not hidden or erased just because of Lucas' frankly wrong opinion.

Lucas doesn't matter anymore. Disney has the chance to fix this. I know the SE fans are feeling like the OOT fans have felt for the past 15 years, but better you than me.

 

Whatever you say, Han

 

No one is saying that you have to love the SE's. What I am saying is that I don't care. It isn't about being a sycophant. I just happen to prefer something, whether it is the SE's of the OT, or "Highlander II", or "Aliens". For me, there's no reason to make a fuss about something I'm not interested in watching. But beyond myself, the CGI isn't about taking care of his films. Lucas did the whole thing. He restored the prints to do the SE's in the mid 90's. He then did it for DVD and then the Blu-Ray version. Regardless of CGI, he did it. He didn't need to do it again for an older print and had no desire to do so.

I do understand, but what you don't understand is that I don't see it like you do and others share my view to varying degrees. I see the OT as not being lost. It is still there. It is more dolled up, but it is still there. A few new effects shots and a few other scenes put in doesn't change what was done and what is still there.

I could give a **** what Disney does. I have my Blu-Ray's, that's fine as far as I am concerned. You really think the people who like the SE's are going to feel horrible? Please. We don't care what Disney will do or don't do. None of us are holding our breaths either way. If they're put out, good. If not, good. It doesn't matter. Whether it happens or not, the SE's are here to stay.

 

They weren't in Blue Ray quality in 77-83. Who cares. I love my SE (Greedo shooting first, Rotj no, and jedi rocks aside, of course) Besides you guys already have 2006 DVD release and various other fan edits.

 

I preservation quality of the OOT isn't a bad thing, guys. It's not like it's asking much.

 

I really don't understand the decision not to render available the OOT. Not only is it a matter of art preservation like many of you already mentioned--published/released material are viewed as the 'truest' versions by many, including me. It's artistic laziness IMHO to alter and alter and alter and alter after your chosen deadline has passed. Many of us DO have perpetual dissatisfaction with our works, yes, and look upon our produced craft with shame & 'what-if...if only' lenses. Still at one point it has to be finished, and, frankly, too bad if you regret your decision to make something a certain way. You have to live with the decision not to follow your instinct at the time. Perfection is unobtainable.

A lot of hard core fans preferring altered editions would probably be willing to buy the OOT anyway as a sort of museum artifact--the chance to see the quality achieved in the 70s in a phenomenal series and whatnot. Instead of the 6 Blu-ray discs + bonus 'in one pack' option that we have now for whatever$, shops & Disney/Lucasfilm would have the opportunity to sell OOT + altered editions + PT + bonus in one big combo for more$$$. It's a sales opportunity.

Fans are already aware of the existence of the OOT, and always will be. Lots of OOT vs altered OT videos can be found in Youtube and other places. If the goal is for future generations to 'forget' the OOT, it's not going to happen.

 

It is though. It was released on VHS, laserdisc and DVD.

To me they are simply another version. One of many but in terms of the overall saga they are not the truest versions anymore.

LOL! They don't choose one it's imposed on you!

Doesn't mean you don't try.

The reason why it was at all possible is because they were so successful and it was viable to spend 20M on making the SE's for re-release.

Which might very well happen.

Actually it largely is just like the whole "what order to watch in" For the whole generation that saw the PT first it's not really an issue and with more episodes coming that will be the new start point.

You really need to find out what CGI is and isn't. The term all over is another thing you need to look into.

 

Yes, it WAS. It no longer is. Right now all that's available in stores are the Blu-ray altered editions. When I turned 18 a couple of years ago, got my own place and of course left my father's old VHS versions at their place, I went to every store in my region to look for the OOT. 'We only offer the six Blu-ray special editions discs + bonus' was the answer that kept coming up so I had to settle for that. Even if I was lucky enough to know someone owning the OOT, there is no way he/she would give it to me, lol.

I always view the first released versions as the true ones. I don't dislike the altered editions(most changes are so minor I just don't see the point) overall, but for me it's rather difficult to see most major changes as 'real'. I'm referring to things like 'Greedo shoots first' and the 'NOOO' in ROTJ. The first one shifts his characterization and the second one kills the suspense for me(I did like the 'NOOO' in ROTS though). Only a few changes I think actually improve scenes--I preferred the new song in Jabba's place, for instance. But I think the first edition was better overall. That plus by being the originals, well they are by definition the 'true ones' for me.

All the same, deadlines are deadlines.

Of course you try to make it as best as you can. But when people have already seen the OOT, it just feels like a little too late.

Oh,how I hope so...

I'm not sure I understand your point there. Are you saying people seeing the PT first or preferring the PT will automatically not care about the OOT/prefer the altered editions? I myself watched the OOT 4-5-6 +1-2 in one shot(one movie per day) in my first viewing ever in 2004. I'm very much from the PT generation(in my early 20s, I am) and prefer the PT to the OT actually, but, perhaps due to the fact I watched the OOT first and the altered OT after that, the OOT is what feels right to me. For future viewers it will depend probably on which version they try first(well assuming they have access through a family member or friend the OOT).

 

It's NOT always about what one sees 'first' it's about what feels 'real'.

 

I don't think of the altered edition as fake-looking, but between the two the OOT offers me a greater degree of 'realness' in terms of characterization.

 

The elephant in the room that few want to address:

Putting the OOT and SE-OT (version 2004) on an equal footing. Someone doesn't want that.....and it's NOT the fans.

 

The thing is that some people make it sound like they are completely and utterly different when they really aren't. When you go through it all the 2 most significant changes are putting the real Emperor in TESB and the real Anakin in ROTJ.

Other than that they are like 99% the same except for the SE's simply looking way better.

How so? It's the same.

I don't see it as shifting anything at all when it comes to Han. There is a whole other thread on that.

As you admit though it's really about what was first. If Greedo had always shot first instead of Han being the only shooter and it was switched you wouldn't like it either.

 

Most changes are insignificant in the bigger picture, yes. Like adding a few rocks in front of R2-D2 in ANH for instance. Not being nit-picky about such details it's something I hardly notice and honestly, really don't see the point of.

The one change I think was truly truly needed was making the Emperor consistent to his ROTJ self. The original Emperor in TESB was a failure, me thinks. They unfortunately went for his ROTS version instead--an improvement over the Elaine Blake version for sure, but it makes more sense he would resemble his ROTJ self the most considering there was only a one-year gap between TESB and ROTJ.

As far as Force Ghosts are concerned, either versions are fine with me. I might have a slight preference for the Hayden C. ghost version, because I feel it symbolizes his return to towards the light side-towards his lighter self. Noting he has lighter Jedi robes than his dark ones in ROTS too hints he is an even better version than his conflicted alive self before his turn. Shows what he could have become had he not turned in ROTS, shows what state he managed to achieve in the end anyway. Still the Shaw version is fine with me too-showing his aged unmasked face represents the moment of his redemption, it's the self that reached the ultimate enlightenment.

I was referring to characters like Han Solo(see below).

No, actually, I would prefer the 'Han shoots first' version because that makes his arc greater. To me that scene establishes he has no qualms about eliminating people that inconveniences his lifestyle. That instead of merely acting in self-defense, he takes the initiative to murder to avoid paying his debt. It shows how much at this point in the trilogy he is a greedy 'all for himself' man that has no code of honor. Of course by ROTJ he has grown to care about causes beyond himself and doesn't kill in cold blood anymore--to remember how he started in ANH makes me appreciative of his personal journey.

 

At no point in the later movies is he presented with a situation where he has the option to kill in cold blood, but refuses. If the original Greedo scene was meant to be part of an arc, then it failed to deliver a payoff, and it was a failure. That's basic writing.

Han does learn to work as part of a group over the course of the three movies, but that has nothing to do with the Greedo scene. If there had been a scene that showed Han learning to have compassion even for his enemies, that would have been relevant. But there was no scene like that, at least not for Han.

 

Still have the ST.

 

True we are not really presented situations in which Han refuses to kill in cold blood, but as Han in the end is no longer portrayed as someone being indifferent to the fate of others I'd imagine the reflex to murder is a habit he'd loose fast, especially since he is now part of the Alliance. At least we don't see him committing murder nonchalantly in his 'Sorry about the mess' way of ANH anymore. I'd think such shady traits would have been shown(with disapproval of Alliance members) until the end if he was meant to remain a static shady character, or at least keep this unsavory habit. It WOULD have been a better execution if Han was shown having mercy, sure, but I don't need to see it to get the impression he no longer 'cold-blood kills'.

Anyway at core it wasn't just about him being willing to shoot first initially, it was about him prioritizing his life above anything else in any situation and finding the quickest way to land his ass on the top. 'Better her than me' in ANH in his early refusal to rescue the Princess despite not being supportive of the Empire(why else would he 'drop the cargo at first sign of Imperials' according to Jabba?) fits well with his earlier 'Sorry about the mess' murder. Otherwise in ANH we pretty much just have the reluctance to save Leia and then the reluctance to fight for the Death Star's destruction as character greyness. His willingness to shoot first adds another flaw for him to have in the start.

 

The problem is that even SE fans are getting shafted with current releases. I think the originals not being restored and preserved is nothing less than criminal, but if they were and I had a choice, the 2004 versions would be my go to despite their flaws, were it not for the vomit-inducing color grading that renders the movies literally unwatchable.

There is no reason why all fans can't be happy. Restore the originals, restore the SEs with proper color grading, and all is well. I love Lucas to death but his stubbornness and hypocrisy about this is infuriating.

 

But Lucas approved those colors! So any SE fan should love them with the same love as all the pointless CGI, PT-pandering and sanitizing changes! It's his vision!

When the SEs were shoved down our throats, the cohesive whole of the films were ruined. Its like having a blanket where you cut random pieces out and replace them with patches of other material.

The OOT needs to be restored and allowed to be shown. How many small theaters would kill to be able to show the original versions again without fear of Lucasfilm? The SEs get booed constantly at those functions.

Had Lucas done the right thing and allowed the two versions to exist, then none of this animosity would have happened. But he brought all of this upon himself and I'm sure a lot of people cheered when he retired.

 

Okay, does your father still have his VHS copies? Do you have a VCR? They're still available to purchase.

 

Yes he still has them, but is too much of a fan to give them to me. That's fair, it was his money so his to own. No I only have a Blu-ray machine. If there was VCRs or the OOT on DVDs still being sold I would jump at the opportunity but from what I'm seeing they're discontinued so not available.

 

You don't have to own them. You can always borrow them and then return them.