Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by DarthMane2, May 16, 2014.
BD = Blu-ray Disc
And yeah, Disney is definitely not shunning the PT. Not saying they're gonna use Jar Jar as a narrator for a movie, but they paid 4 billion for the whole franchise - I'd be surprised if we don't see more from the Clone Wars era at some point. The heavy OT focus is just promotion for the new movies. The OUT, if it's released, will be the same. It will simultaneously make some cash, promote the new movie, and win back some estranged fans before they become bitter and jaded about the ST.
The prequels are quite popular, and you can bet that we'll see some spin-offs from the era, but the franchise is about to shift focus. Eventually, we'll stop seeing Luke and Han stuff and start seeing merch from the new characters.
Then again I guess it is. The PT era has been focused on for 15 years. There are still room for stories set before the Clone Wars but I am ready for the era to be over for a while. There will spin-offs in the era but ramping up interest for the ST is the priority now.
The PT should have tied in better to the OT, without having to alter the OT needlessly.
As for CGI, it has its uses. But in the PT, it went way too overboard. Not one set of clone armor was real? Sets that were just green covered wood, with little to no practical parts? Little to no location filming except for background plates? Too much. Thats why I like the ST idea of CGI to enhance and support the practical filmmaking, not replace it.
That is exactly the same as saying that ESB should have tied into SW without altering it needlessly and that ROTJ should have tied into both of them without altering them needlessly. Lucas did with the PT what he always did. Each movie alters the overall story both backwards and forwards.
There are so many holes in the OT storyline that the PT had to fill them in to tell a complete story. The problem is that in the intervening 16 years between the 2 trilogies many fans had filled in the story themselves using various sources as well as their own imaginations. So when the real story is told they had a hard time accepting it.
A great example I always use is this. For the PT to tie in better to the OT then they would have to make no mention at all of the Sith since the Sith were never actually mentioned in the movies.
For that matter so many things were either entirely left out of the OT or barely mentioned. The only real reference to Vader being part machine was in ROTJ. How that happened, the duel etc was never mentioned in the movies only as backstory in the novels and the like. How Anakin was found, how the Jedi worked how the Republic worked how they fell was never mentioned nor were the way the Clone Wars came about or what it was about.
I suggest you look at this thread to dispel the myths of the PT which used more "practical effects" in each film than the entire OT combined along with man dozens of sets and everything else was was used to create the OT excepts of course they used few puppets since puppets can't do what CG creatures can.
EDIT: Actually I see you have but don't seem to take much from it.
It was a practical effects extravaganza the like of which will probably never be seen again. The problem is that people confuse and interchange the term CG or CGI with digital.
The point of the Clonetroopers is that how many people didn't realize it wasn't "real" I thought it was (meaning I guess they made a few and then digitally duplicated them) the ROTS troopers look even more amazing with the motion capture of actual soldiers they did.
How can you do location filming on Mustafar? Corsucant? Kamino? You can't go to these places to shoot. When they could they did but even saying background plates is too simple a description. For the battle of Naboo they did all sorts of actual filming of large fields plus photos and then took those and reshaped them to look more fantastic in conjunction with mattes plus the CG of the Gungans and droids and minatures and models of the various tanks and droids etc. Complaing about that is like complaining that they didn't build real walkers and bring them on location when shooting the Hoth scenes which were also a combination of plates, photos, mattes with models and miniatures.
Why is one less "practical" than the other?
Enhancing and supporting is one thing that CG can do with practical but it also has to be recognized it can also simply do things that can't be done and "practical" has limitations while CG is only limited by imagination and the skill to create it.
Too problematic during the making of the OT. See troopers falling over and smacking their foreheads.
Best to put money elsewhere.
There was almost none in ROTS due to the worlds being completely alien in design. Kashyyyk was blue screen simply since there was only the Wookiee actors required to film a few minutes worth of footage. No reason to fly to Tunisa and Switzerland for less than a day's filming. An alien world isn't going to look entirely like Earth.
I was talking about the Special Editions adding things to the original movies to make them more in line with the prequels. Things like the Nooooo callback, Ghost Hayden with his child molester stare, The clunky new Emperor/Vader dialog, the obnoxious Dug in Jedi, etc. The original films should never have been changed just to make them fit better with the Prequels.
Getting back to the original topic, I hope that the Theatrical Cuts of the Original Trilogy become available soon, in a high quality format. Lucas sabotaged the last release by using outdated non anamorphic Laserdisc masters, saying that that was all that was left. He wanted them to purposely look inferior so he could continue with the lie that the Special Editions were all people want. There is a whole website devoted to people who want the Original Trilogy, and if Disney can make it happen, they will.
The original versions were not destroyed to make the SEs. There exist inter-positives, and original elements which would be perfect to create a 4 or even 8k scan and make better HD versions than even the current Blu-Rays (Which don't cut the mustard for current industry standards) Color correction should be done and care taken to keep the film grain and not DVNR it to hell along with crushing the blacks. Lucasfilm has a die-transfer, fade-free Technicolor print of Star Wars, that looks as good as it did in 1977 to use to make the first film look as it did. Empire and Jedi need the same care, but it will be trickier as no fade free prints exist for them. The Star Wars print came from England, and the Technicolor plant closed down before Empire and Jedi were released
So hopefully we can get the movies in gorgeous HD, color corrected and with the original soundtrack (Not the '85 or '93 remixes). Heck, even put the original mono mix from Star Wars on as a bonus. It would be lovely to not have to buy the Special Editions, and leave those to the fans who enjoy them. It will go a long way to stop some of the revisionism that seems to be plaguing the Saga since 1997.
So basic visual changes only?
If you don't like it fine but I love that and what's one more NOOOOOO!!! in movies that have so many?
LOL! OK come on you have to admit that is just silly. Whoever came up with that is just kinda warped.
It adds great depth and character to their whole relationship. That along with the NO and Anakin ghost are the best changes because they add to the story.
Never even noticed it until it was pointed out.
As I said each film past the first changed the one before and after. Even if no obvious changes had been made they still would have been different. You are talking about ultimately cosmetic stuff.
Eventually they will but anytime soon? I don't see it. The earliest I can possibly see is next year as a run up to the movie or it's BD release but why would Disney line FOX's pockets?
Really people are lucky they got those. Lucas says all kind of things for expediency like he split the original screenplay into 3 etc, etc. What do you want him to do go into intricate detail of everything he ever did and explain every single decision?
He's human too so maybe he got fed up with all the lies the people who so desperately want the originals so badly and gave them what they wanted but not the way they wanted them. You know all the lies propogated by these people. PT was all CG etc etc.
The truth that these people can't handle is that 99% of the audience doesn't care about the changes and has no problem buying them.
The funny thing is how much less interesting their lives would be if they had just got them years ago. I really wonder if they would ever be happy really. Because no matter how much he gave them they might always want more.
Of course they will. They aren't like Lucas. Their purpose is to make as much money as possible. That wasn't Lucas' goal. If it was then he'd have released the movies over and over again on DVD multiple times first vanilla, then with extras and all sorts of versions from the originals, 97 SE's, 04 then BD over and over.
Again that is just media talk. They were destroyed as much as they were taken apart and reassembled as the SE's.
I think this whole 4K and 8K thing is more technically true that reasonably. The amount of detail you see on the BD's will outstrip anything you've ever seen before anywhere on any movie screen. So unless you happen to have a larger than IMAX screen at home or for some reason want to zoom in 1000 fold to check out that lightswitch in the back of the Falcon what does it really mean?
What original soundtrack? This is what I mean about people never being happy. They can get the best possible sound and someone is going to be unhappy because what they remember and what the reality is are 2 different things. Look at all the people who will swear with vivid recollection that they saw the Biggs scenes at the start of the movie. They were never, ever there but they will be adamant that they saw them.
I want to say it again revisionism has been plaguing the saga from ESB. Revisionism is what the movies were always about. Something was always being revised. The soundmix was done over and over and over again.
The soundtrack for Star Wars was remixed in 1985 for the home video master and again in 1993 for the THX Laserdisc. I would love the original Stereo Mix, the one that won an Oscar. This is probably a bit nitpicky, but it hasn't been available.
The mono mix of Star Wars is really interesting. It has very distinct differences, because it was done after the initial showings when it went into wide release. Here are a couple examples:
A list of changes can be found here.
This. Even a good bit of Mustafar (lava included) was built as sets and models with floating debris, ash, and other things added later.
Sure. It had to be as steros then didn't have the same capacity as now or whatever the tech reason is. It is nitpicky but as I said I wish Lucas was a greedy guy and had released all this material over and over and over again. I'd have bought it all. I'd love DVD and now BD's of all the versions with multiple sound mixes from mono to this stereo to that stereo to 5.1, 6.1, 7.1 etc.
I've listened to the fan created version on the DSE's. It'd be a nice bonus for cinephiles but other than them who would want it though?
So, the Star Wars trilogy is apparently getting a 4k restoration: http://makingstarwars.net/2014/07/star-wars-iv-vi-converted-4k-16-bit-resolution/
The article states "conversion," implying that the current scans will be upconverted, but RMW has it listed as an actual, full-blown restoration. This is potentially big news, as the special edition effects were created at 2k. Is this finally the original unaltered trilogy being prepared for a Blu-ray and/or theatrical rerelease to promote Episode VII? Or are they just restoring the 1997 special edition negative and upconverting the new CG elements?
Ugh. I don't want the unaltered trilogy. I just want the Special Edition FIXED. ie: Fixed lightsabers, No terrible Jabba Scene & Old song in Jabba's palace restored. Most of the enhancements are good, there are just a few poorly done ones.
Well, all of those things are "fixed" in the unaltered trilogy.
I like parts of the special editions too (mostly just the additions to Yavin and Bespin), but I would love restored copies of the originals.
I would love to see at least the original 1977 Star Wars released. From a certain point of view pretty much everything else that's happened since is tinkering of some sort, but this is the original of originals. Let it be seen in all it's glory!
Oh please let this be true. I would leap with joy at a new release of the original Star Wars Trilogy in HD. My biggest wish is to be able to see it in a theater with an audience and get the experience I was denied by being born in 1985.
Edit: Saw the demo reel and Vader's lightsaber is no longer pink!
I wonder if they'll go back to marketing ANH as "Star Wars", ESB as "The Empire Strikes Back", and ROTJ as "Return of the Jedi".
I nearly wept with joy when I saw the lightsaber colors lol. Even if it is the special edition, the color timing looks like the pre-2004 versions of the movies, and it looks wonderful.
You know, I had forgotten that my old '95 VHS tapes don't include an episode number anywhere on the box. Even though it was ANH in the opening crawl, the box and tape identified it simply as "Star Wars." I kinda hope they do go back to that. The hype behind Episode VII so far seems to be "Star Wars returning to its roots." The vintage feel of the original titles will give them a certain appeal, and the absence of numbers will make it seem more like a trilogy of movies that stand on their own instead of being mere installments in a greater saga.
Nope. It'll still be Episodes IV through VI.
STAR WARS: EPISODE IV - A New Hope
I think throwing up the Episode Numbers in the titles in the series is a thing, which admittedly started with Episode 1, but now that's here to stay. If anything, Disney actually wants people to know that there's more installments in the series, therefore awareness of more things tied into a series = profit!
I call bull&^%$ on this rumor. Even if Disney had the rights to release the unaltered OT (they don't), I'm fairly certain the unaltered OT prints aren't in good enough shape for a Blu-ray release; if they bother to release these, they would need to do a LOT of work to clean these up - if these original film prints are even available. As far as I know, the only unaltered OT prints that are available are what many of us have already see as the 2nd DVD on the 2006 DVD OT re-releases, i.e. the non-anamoprhic sub-par Laser disk rips. As far as I'm concerned, these prints are unwatchable - I've never been able to sit through them...I guess I've been spoiled by Blu-rays....
Will the prequels get a 4K restoration?
Phantom Menace is feasible being filmed on 35mm, doubtful for AotC and RotS. They can be digitally upscale (example: Doctor Who series 1-4 were filmed digitally at standard def widescreen and digitally up-converted for the blu-ray release the results were not too great) but that's about it they will never be truly above 1920x1080 as that is what they were filmed at.
This may just be me, but the Blu releases of the PT are as good as I need to see these films - the prints are superb. IIRC, AOTC & ROTS were filmed digitally, so they already looked good when transferred to home video. TPM on Blu looks great as well.
What I especially noticed when watching the films on Blu is that the print is almost too good - what I mean by this is that some of the special effects are extremely obvious since the picture is so crisp/clear. I can't imagine needing it to look any better than it is already...