Senate Russia: its impact on the world, its invasion of Ukraine, and its future

Do tell, how would you suggest doing that?

 

So if Russia managed to become the superpower it is in the Modern Warfare games and Putin invades ALL of Europe and annexes it into Russia. Then Putin invades ALL the rest of the world and all that's left is the USA... would it affect America then?

At what point would you believe American response is needed?

Also tidying up your own house is fine, but when your neighbor is gobbling up his other neighbors houses it might be a good idea to stick your head out the window and tell him to stop, lest you turn around and fine you are the only house he hasn't taken.

Russia seems to have proven assassination isn't that hard, might be time to try our hands at it again.

 

Assassinating the leader of a nuclear superpower, what could possibly go wrong. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

So, @GenAntilles-- these blinders you're wearing. What brand are they?

 

I thought you recognized our obligations to NATO? Now you want us to leave them. So do you want us out of the UN too? Do you want the UN out of NYC?

 

Eh, Kennedy got killed and Ford nearly got killed quite a few times. We didn't turn into crazy people and shoot missiles everywhere.

 

Archdukie says hi.

We're also looking at the very real possibility that even plans to assassinate GHWB may have led to the quagmire in Iraq, so let's not put down the crazypants quite yet...

 

If you want to take out Putin then financially ruining him is your best bet.

If you want a quick route to suicide then assassinating Putin is your best bet.

I mean, ideally, yeah you would want Putin dead and if you had the means to do it and you could assure that your nation would get blamed...yeah, do it. But if he dies now then the fingers would be pointed our way. So your best bet is to bankrupt him and hurt Russia financially and let his masters or the Russian mob take care of it.

 

The problem with Putin is that he will need continued crisis's to stay in power, which is why the Ukrainian situation will probably either end in Russian annexation or continued fighting. He will need to create and sustain crisis's in order to maintain his position, otherwise his popularity will drop dramatically. Fact of the matter that Putin is, in most senses, a Nazi (and I'm using this technically and not as a simple jab) and Russia is in a similar situation as Germany in the 1930's. The good thing is that Putin probably isn't suicidal so it is highly unlikely it will deteriorate into any broad conflict... it just means Russia's neighbours should brace for destabilisation. He probably won't undermine the NATO states though...

 

I'm hesitant to refer to Putin as a Nazi, unless you would also refer to Stalin as a Nazi. Putin strikes me more as someone who is trying to rebuild the soviet system of authoritarianism, hence his recent attempts to repatriate the likes of Stalin as national heroes.

With this in mind I would say Putin isn't a Nazi, he's a dictator. Just like most dictators his motivation is power, namely he wants to carve himself a sphere of influence in his near abroad and overturn the post-cold war settlement. He also wants to contain Nato and EU expansion, as he feels that these are threats to his reign. Considering this I feel that we are in for some extremely hairy times ahead, just as we had throughout the early Cold War, but I wouldn't go as far as to summon the imagery that comes with playing the Nazi card.

Unless Putin is truly an irrational, paranoid leader. In which case all bets are off.

 

Putin doesn't wish to recreate the Soviet Union. His disdain for communism is pretty clear; he heads a Rightwing party.

 

Agreed, Putin is a Russian nationalist, not a Soviet.

Why is Putin so horrible? Would you guys prefer Stalin?

 

That's like asking if you'd prefer the crappy mouldy side of the bread to the mouldy crappy side.

Both are a godawful proposition. The thing is, right now we have a dictator in Putin who is running a "rich" nation through fear and is all but going to war with Ukraine.

That's why Putin is horrible. Will this lead to ww3? Doubtful, but do we really need a sabre rattler stirring up for no reason? No.

 

Putin is not a genocidal maniac, so he is not even in the same class as Stalin.

 

Then why even ask if people would prefer Stalin?


Putin = bad choice for the west.
Stalin = even worse choice for the west.

Either way they're a crap option.

 

I disagree. Putin doesn't hold an overly optimistic view of the Soviet system and unlike Stalin is a fervent nationalist (which is probably one of the only things that doesn't make Stalin facist-like). The main distinction between communists and fascists is that the former has a anti-nationalist streak, the latter does not. They are, ironically, similar in many ways (especially the Stalinist brand of communism).

Obviously Putin isn't a 'Nazi' because he isn't German per-se (any non-German neo-Nazi seems like an oxymoron to me). He is certainly a fascist in almost every sense: he is extremely nationalistic going so far as to expand on ethnic grounds and oppressing already 'occupied' minorities; he has tight command controls on the economy corrupting any 'free market' with corruption and rampant thuggery; he is a response to a fallen Empire who has lost territory and wants it back (mainly because 'Russians live there'); he is blatant about his distain for the opposition; and he relishes in the 'Tsarist Russia' idea of the great Imperial power. He isn't very communist, but he is very fascist.

 

My point is more how in the world would we ensure that the next guy ends up being any better?

 

Fair enough and it's a good point.

Depressingly I don't believe it is something we can control, that's something for Russia to decide when they next vote.

 

I am a big fan of the "devil you know" theory.

 

If we allow the Baltics to slip away, what's to stop Putin from threatening western Europe next?

Without NATO, Russia would likely invade Europe. Putin's insistence on painting the US as the root of all evil to his citizenry smacks of Ayatollah Khomeini back in the day, and shouldn't be ignored.

As far as "let him have Ukraine", well, that was the thinking of certain world leaders too, back in 1939....

Peace,

V-03

 

How is Obama's political relationship with Putin these days?

 

At least with Stalin his government employees were smart enough to kill him before he did anymore lasting damage. At least if you believe he was poisoned.

 

The Putin-Hitler comparisons are lazy, and even lazier are the appeasement accusations.

I don't know what this thread's obsession with comparing people and countries to historical people and historical countries. We have a brand new geopolitical situation. Let's try for some fresh analyses.

I'm not seeing Putin invade all of Europe if there was no NATO. Two EU countries are nuclear, and even without US backing Europe, he'd know that the second he marches into Poland, he'd be risking nuclear war.

 

Didn't Stalin supposedly murder his wife?