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Full Series Sabine

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV- Completed Shows' started by newdawn12, Feb 16, 2014.

  1. Praenomen Cognomen

    Praenomen Cognomen Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 24, 2013
    Personally, no big ruckus, but I don't see it either. I never took a lack of punishment as an endorsement. To me, it doesn't mean that a child can be wiser... simply that a child can be correct on accident. That's more of an Eastern philosophy, the notion that true wisdom is the ability to learn from those less wise than yourself.

    The Jedi Council is a religious organization, and portraying a religious organization with strict rules and harsh punishments isn't something anyone would watch or endorse. Jedi rules aren't law, but guidelines meant to keep Jedi principles at the forefront of the mind. When a Jedi's actions occur without principle, that's where punishment comes in (like Ahsoka's haste in battle on Felucia). On the other hand, Ahsoka sneaking aboard the Citadel mission wasn't reckless, but principled, because she sensed that Anakin was holding her back because he feared the harm that mightcome to her. If anything, that was a failure of principle on Anakin's part, not hers.
     
  2. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    So it's OK if she disobeys Anakin if she thinks he's wrong?

    What's the point of even having a chain of command then?

    And I definitely took the lack of punishment as an endorsement. If rules are without consequences, there is no point in having rules, as the child is given the message that they don't matter, as well as given the message that the person of authority does not have to be taken seriously.

    And I stand by my statement that if Ahsoka does not to take rules and a chain of command seriously, we are given the message that her opinion, wisdom, etc. is as important or more important than that of the Jedi Council.

    Being right on accident is different. She could have been told that it is fortunate that she was right this time but disobeying a direct order is not acceptable.

    The Jedi Order is a paramilitary organization, not a hippie commune full of equals.
     
  3. Dark Lord Tarkas

    Dark Lord Tarkas Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 29, 2011
    I already said I had a problem with that part of the arc too, I'm questioning your contention that her being wrong and getting away with it makes her wiser than all the other Jedi.
     
  4. Darth_Zandalor

    Darth_Zandalor Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 2, 2009
    She does feel like she was built to be the "designated fan favorite". But like I said, I'll reserve judgement.
     
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  5. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    See if my edit answers your question.

    Allowing her to get away with flagrant disobedience is a relinquishment of their authority.

    Maybe I didn't word that well and I'm not interested in getting into a semantics argument but the relinquishment of their authority indicates one of two things: one, they are wusses and afraid of her, which I don't believe, or two, they believe that she is at least their equal, if not greater.
     
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  6. Praenomen Cognomen

    Praenomen Cognomen Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 24, 2013
    It's OK that Rex disobeyed Krell, so yeah, it's OK if she thinks he's wrong and it's backed up by principle.

    The idea was never that she shouldn't come because she would mess things up... the entire motivation for Anakin's decision to make her stay behind is that he was afraid for her safety, which isn't a Jedi trait.

    The Jedi Order is, according to its heads, not a paramilitary organization... it's a religious order being used as one.

    Anyway, allowing somebody off the hook for their disobedience when it all worked out in the end is a common, common, common trope in military stories... And I'm not defending tropes as good storytelling, but the trope-fest that is Star Wars is no match for a trope that common.
     
  7. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Being asked not to come on a mission is not being asked to do something immoral. Ahsoka was not entitled to go on that mission and it was not her place to question Anakin's orders.

    And even prior to the Jedi being involved in war, the Order had a chain of command that was expected to be followed. See also: Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan.
     
  8. Dark Lord Tarkas

    Dark Lord Tarkas Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Apr 29, 2011
    anakinfansince1983 I wasn't trying to argue semantics, just going off your original statement which is all I took issue with which is why I kept going back to it. I agree that Plo Koon should not have covered for her, but it was a decision by Plo Koon alone that undermined Anakin alone, not a decision by the entire Jedi Council that undermined all Jedi beside Ahsoka.
     
  9. Praenomen Cognomen

    Praenomen Cognomen Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 24, 2013
    That's fair, if we're talking about real life. However, in an epic story... well, I gotta say it: Qui-Gon didn't punish Obi-Wan for defying him. He praised him as "a much wiser man" (which is something a wise man says to another man, even if it isn't true).

    So, it's OK, I just don't see.
     
  10. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Dark Lord Tarkas: OK, fair enough.

    Talk about un-Jedi-like though...Plo, a Council member, playing favorites and undermining the authority structure in the Master-Padawan relationship.

    Praenomen Cognomen: Obi-Wan arguing and expressing an opinion is one thing, but I can't see Qui-Gon letting Obi-Wan get away with a blatant act of disobedience.

    Or Obi-Wan committing one for that matter.

    Anyway, Sabine...I don't want her disobeying Hera, Kanan or any other adult and getting away with it scot-free . Even if things turn out OK in the end.

    Same goes for Ezra.
     
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  11. Revanfan1

    Revanfan1 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 3, 2013
    Yeah, my biggest problem was that Plo was basically lying to Anakin, and undermining his authority over Ahsoka, just because he loved Little 'Soka. Now, I love Plo/Ahsoka's friendship, but that was taking it too far, IMO.

    Didn't Obi-Wan say that he wasn't so different from Luke once, when Yoda said Luke was brash or whatever he called him? I think the Obi-Wan we saw in TPM had matured past the "blatant act of disobedience" point, but there's nothing saying he wasn't like that before. Still, I think you're right; he wouldn't have done it quite like Ahsoka did, or at least not lied about it...and none of the Council would've stuck up for him, that's for sure.
     
  12. Praenomen Cognomen

    Praenomen Cognomen Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 24, 2013
    Eh, doesn't bother me, never will.

    It won't matter if Sabine isn't actually a kid... we don't exactly have age confirmation on anybody.
     
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  13. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2014
    Yes very good point how old do you think she is. I say 15 to 18.
     
  14. DarthZotte

    DarthZotte Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Feb 21, 2014
    Believe it or not, Sabine is actually my favorite character (besides the Inquisitor) that has been introduced for this show so far. Finally a Mandalorian unlike Bo-Katan from TCW who has a sense of humor and likes to be a rebel. Her thing with spraying graffiti of the Rebellion symbol is such a cool trait.
     
  15. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2014
    Do you think she is part of the mandolorians in the EU or TCW.
     
  16. Darth_Wilahelm

    Darth_Wilahelm Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Oct 31, 2009
    Sabine is the character I am most interested in so far. This is mostly due to her being a Mandalorian and I really want to know what has happened there since the end of the Clone Wars. Last time we saw it the planet was war zone and looking to get worse. I wonder how the events there have effected Sabine and the other Mandalorians of this era
     
  17. Mia Mesharad

    Mia Mesharad Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Well, she's not a blonde-haired, blue-eyed white person, and she's wearing armor decorated in non-Death Watch colors so I'm thinking she's not a New Mandalorian or Death Watch member. Thankfully. Making the warrior clan connection much more likely.

    The planet was doing just fine, the battle in The Lawless was only centered on the lone city of Sundari. And with Maul forcibly brought to heel by Sidious at the end, subsequently taken off world according to the follow-up Darth Maul comic series on the horizon, the conflict between the two Death Watch factions likely died as the source of contention disappeared.
     
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  18. Revanfan1

    Revanfan1 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 3, 2013
    Part of me hopes the conflict continued because the two factions had been disagreeing for a long time, over things like tactics and levels of barbarism and the like, and the Maul thing just split the rift too large to be mended without bloodshed. Bo-Katan and her forces could be the less radical members, while the ones backing Maul were the really radical ones, willing to kill innocents and plunder towns. Sure, Bo seemed more than willing to do that in past episodes...but it never showed her being particularly happy about it, though. The only time she showed true joy in her fighting was on Hutta, when she laughed and said "I see negotiations have gone according to plan!" And even then it was due to the thrill of the fight, because the Hutt's servants could defend themselves. So, even though Bo's forces might not be mainstream "warrior clans," they have my 100% backing.
     
  19. Contessa

    Contessa Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2013
    Probably somewhere around the upper part of there. My guess would be 17.

    Same here.

    I could dig them as more moderates, especially if that leads to them getting accepted back in with the other clans and the Protectors and stuff. Still hoping Sabine has nothing to do with any of them (DW/New Mandos/Night Owls) and is just a regular warrior clan nobody, but that's cool for Bo and them.
     
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  20. Skaddix

    Skaddix Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Feb 3, 2012
    Yep lets chuck the New Mandos and Deathwatch out.
     
  21. Arrian

    Arrian Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Aug 15, 2011
    Mia Mesharad - the synopsis for the Maul comics seems to contradict your statement that Maul has no further role in the Mandalorian political landscape.
     
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  22. Mia Mesharad

    Mia Mesharad Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Fair point for consideration. I guess we'll have to see whether Maul's "army of Mandalorians" he'll use to "take on the galaxy" amounts to anything more in relation to the affairs of Mandalore than collecting his Death Watch supporters for another run amok around the galaxy.
     
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  23. ImNotAStarWarsFanboy

    ImNotAStarWarsFanboy Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 25, 2011
    How old is Sabine supposed to be? This show's design makes everyone look like teenagers.

    Either way, I foresee many explicit images of her in the future.
     
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  24. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    I'm putting her at 16ish based on everything we've seen so far.

    And I think someone posted that the explicit images have already started. [face_plain]

    If nothing else, how many adults spray paint their rooms, especially with stormtrooper helmets and the "no" symbol through them?

    I think Kanan is mid-20s since he's an Order 66 survivor, and Hera owns the Ghost and has been labelled the "mom figure" so I'm guessing she's an adult as well. She's the one I'm most interested in.
     
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  25. FRAGWAGON

    FRAGWAGON Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 3, 2012
    I was wondering when the Bratz dolls and Star Wars would crossover.