Rebels Sabine

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by newdawn12, Feb 16, 2014.

  1. Sir Chem Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 26, 2013
    star 1
    I've been thinking about this subject for a while, and still can't put my thought out clearly, so bear with me.

    I can understand the problem someone might have with the word feisty, but I really can't think of a different word that would be good to use. "Fiery" or "a firecracker" might be a better word, since it show's that she's dangerous but doesn't give the negative connotations seen with a word like "aggressive".

    There's an irrefutable difference between the physical aspects of men and women, and that needs to be considered when viewing stuff like this. Merely from the fact that women have much higher voice than a man, women are naturally less imposing.

    Let's look at it this way; say a friend starts chewing someone out, and is very angry about something. Unless it is really terrible, when a women does this it makes things uncomfortable, but nothing more than that. You aren't, say, worried about the other person's physical well-being.

    When a man does it, though, it makes everyone on edge. I know I feel a sort readiness to spring into action at those times, in case something goes bad.

    Is it bad that I see the two in different ways? Not in my opinion. I don't look at women as "lesser" than men, and I don't disregard the threat they can pose. But my natural "fight-or-flight" reflexes react more strongly toward an aggressive man than a woman. (BTW, I am way more afraid of women than men. A woman will make me shut up and listen, whereas a man will just make me want to be aggressive in response.)

    I know that whole jumble is hard to make sense of, so TLDR: The differences in words use to describe women vs. men is mainly due to the natural physical differences, in my opinion. It doesn't make women anything less than men, but rather helps to convey the different natural response you feel toward either sex.
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  2. Praenomen Cognomen Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 24, 2013
    star 4
    You're not wrong, and in this case, I'm iffy on the principle of creating a lot of linguistic taboos. If I recall correctly, these words were used mostly by other women.

    I'm all for using sound logic to refute legitimate threats to equality, but one must admit---whichever side of the argument they're on---that arguments of linguistics often bear a certain theoretical quality that can quickly lead to words being taken more seriously than they were intended.

    It reminds me of a recent debate I had about the legitimacy of claims of "slut-shaming," which I argued can be a *symptom* of sexism but not inherently sexist on its own (in that there are plenty of traditional people who have a condescending opinion of people who sleep around, no matter their gender, and that they're entitled to that since it's a matter of judgment where no actual freedoms are at risk). In the end, we arrived at the conclusion that a person for whom it's really a problem---mainly college guys who demean young women while simultaneously seeking to "score" indiscriminately, themselves---is guilty of a much more deep-rooted form of sexism, and rooting out slut-shaming is like taking aim at a single cancer cell in a whole tumor; it's essentially meaningless, and the term can actually be harmful (because a person in actual danger can use it to ward off the concern of people who genuinely care about them).

    But I digress... I guess my point is, I try to avoid policing the language because there are some people---potentially even the ones being interviewed---for whom this entire concern might fly right over their heads.
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  3. Contessa Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2013
    star 2
    Just "Rapunzel" originally, but they thought that sounded too much like a princess movie and boys wouldn't want to see it because that's for girls. Same reason they marketed the **** out of the stupid snowman and reindeer comedy duo for Frozen instead of Elsa and Anna


    I wish marketing thought that way...

    This.
  4. VanishingReality Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 21, 2013
    star 3
    Someone else that thinks Leia is under-appreciated? ^:)^
    I am really hoping that Sabine is at least as amazing a character as Leia, and that Leia herself in Rebels for that matter.


    She's also an explosives expert. Can a ten year old or a dog explode things? I think the words are only dismissive if the rest of the character's description is not considered.
    Last edited by VanishingReality, Mar 5, 2014
  5. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Leia is most definitely under appreciated.

    And the fact that the "dudebros" didn't want her because she called a spade, a spade, and was "ungrateful" to her rescuers, says a lot more about them than it does about her.

    Men who only like meek women are worth all kinds of LOLs.

    As far as Sabine being an "explosives expert," I'm going to wait and see if it means that she's actually a SWAT-team level expert or if she's just the one in the group who enjoys blowing **** up.
  6. Revanfan1 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 3, 2013
    star 5
    Mia Mesharad, Contessa and Ordo N-11 like this.
  7. Togruta Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 2010
    star 4
    I guess it's only a matter of time before we get a thread about the use of the word "feisty"..
  8. Heero_Yuy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 4
    It could be worse. They could've used the word, "uppity," to describe her.
  9. Ordo N-11 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 28, 2013
    star 3
    I'm hoping that she will have the SWAT-team level skills and enjoy blowing **** up.
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  10. TaradosGon SWTV Mod - Like Palpatine with animals

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    Bombs are complicated devices. And with how impoverished the Rebels are (look at Chopper), I don't think Sabine is blowing her cash down at the Explosives R' Us.

    I'd imagine that she is legitimately an explosives expert, making IEDs from scavenged parts. Not some inexperienced young woman with inexplicable access to explosives. That she loves what she does might just be the icing on the cake.
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  11. QuangoFett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 11, 2011
    star 4
    She may be expressive, but I doubt she's going to be some airheaded pyro-pixie. Real life has been filled with countless highly competent soldiers who have sides to them other than the purely martial.

    Take James Blunt, for example. That famed singer of sappy love songs was actually a tank commander in the NATO intervention in Kosovo, serving directly under Mike Jackson (UK commander) and getting involved in a miniature diplomatic crisis caused by Wesley Clark (US commander). He even wrote some of his songs while in Kosovo.

    Sabine seems like she'll be a well-rounded, competent character. One of the producers even alluded to her having a "serious" side beyond the upbeat personality and artistic impulses. Something tells me she'll evoke thoughts of the clone commando "Scorch" from Republic Commando. He actually enjoys blowing things up, as Sabine might herself, but he's also obviously a highly skilled explosives expert and professional soldier. TG's mention of IEDs prompted me to think of the sort of insurgency/counter-insurgency tactics that will be used by both sides on Lothal.
  12. MistrX Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 20, 2006
    star 4
    I have to say, when I think of "spunky", I still think of this guy:




    [IMG]
  13. QuangoFett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 11, 2011
    star 4
    If Sabine is in her late teens or early twenties, then she could conceivably have some early childhood memories of the Clone Wars. Specifically, she may have originated from somewhere in Mandalorian Space when it was torn apart by the brutal civil war we see begin in TCW-S5. Could she perhaps be a refugee from that conflict?
    Cevan, Revanfan1 and Circular Logic like this.
  14. FRAGWAGON Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 4
    You're a feisty little one. But you'll soon learn some respect.
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  15. Circular Logic SWTV Interview Host

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    Mar 3, 2013
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    From the interview with Dave Filoni about the final episodes of TCW, regarding the similarity between Sabine's name and Duchess Satine's:

    So it appears that it was merely a coincidence that the name the producers chose was so similar to Satine's, but they aren't related at all, outside of them both being Mandos. Filoni hints that we'll be seeing some connections between Rebels and TCW, although this may not be one of them. I would love to learn more about Sabine's character and what she is fighting for, personally.
  16. TaradosGon SWTV Mod - Like Palpatine with animals

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    Sabine is just such a random name. It's been pointed out before that every character has a name of historical and/or religious association. Sabine's being the name of a tribe conquered by the Romans. But I'd still think that there's so many tribes that they easily could have picked another one of feminine sound, rather than Filoni saying, "lol, it's kind of like 'Satine,' I like it."

    I'm actually surprised that there isn't an association. The "Aragorn, son of Arathorn" kind of naming scheme seemed way too conspicuous, and I'm actually very much surprised that it's coincidence. They could have at least gone with the "Sab-ee-na" pronunciation that some of had the real world name carries (even if that's not how the Italian tribe's name is pronounced).
    Last edited by TaradosGon, Mar 18, 2014
  17. Sir Chem Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 26, 2013
    star 1
    I agree. I don't dislike the name, but I am one of those people who likes symbolic names (Especially subtle ones). Random names at least need to sound really good. I don't think Sabine does.
    Last edited by Sir Chem, Mar 18, 2014
  18. Dark Lord Tarkas Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2011
    star 4
    I read the interview and did not get that impression whatsoever.
  19. TaradosGon SWTV Mod - Like Palpatine with animals

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    He said he liked the name and he was fully aware of the similarity to Satine and Pablo anticipated that it was going to lead to the assumption that the two were related (and it did). It's not just a similar name, it's like having a character named Anakig or Padmi. The similarity, barring one letter changed is annoying to me.

    Not that big of a deal, but just something that they were cognizant of and did anyway and I wish they didn't, unless they were doing a Japanese style clan naming scheme, or even going for a Tolkien style scheme of derivative names like Arathorn/Aragorn; Boromir/Faramir; Elrond/Elros; etc.

    Even though there's not correlation between the two, and even if Sabine is named after something in the real world, and even if it's just coincidental, it still just sounds like a cheap derivative name.

    In real life, they are a tribe the Roman's conquered/ But so are the Veii, Volsci, Gabii, Rutuli; Illyria; Lusitania; etc. All names that could be given to a Mandalorian, and not sound derivative of a name given to another very prominent Mandalorian.
    Last edited by TaradosGon, Mar 18, 2014
  20. Dark Lord Tarkas Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2011
    star 4
    @TaradosGon here is the full quote:

    To me the first reaction he describes himself giving makes it sound like the name was not his idea originally and he objected to it at first for being too similar to Satine.
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  21. Contessa Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2013
    star 2
    So there's absolutely no connection between Sabine and Satine?
    [IMG]
  22. Heero_Yuy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 4
    I'm glad there's no familial connection. As it should be IMHO as not everyone in the GFFA needs to be related. That being said, I wouldn't mind Bo Katan appearing in SWR sometime.

    As for the debate on calling her, "feisty," or, "spunky," why don't they go for broke and call her Bossy? That's the problem word these days apparently.
  23. QuangoFett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 11, 2011
    star 4
    There's actually something to the idea that Mandalorians could have names inherited from Classical history. Cassus Fett's name is very similar to Cassius, one of the plotters against Julius Caesar.

    Of course, I'll be holding out for a Mandalorian named Belgae.
    Last edited by QuangoFett, Mar 19, 2014
  24. Revanfan1 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 3, 2013
    star 5
    They could've done it Nautolan-style. In Shadow Games that Nautolans consider directly naming their child after a famous person is culturally taboo, so they sometimes use anagrams. In the book, for example, Eaden Vrill was named for Neaed Fisto. Though looking at the name "Sabine" there's no real way to make an anagram that sounds like an easy-to-pronounce name. Baisen? Sanibe? Nesaib? Beanis? Bainse? Nothing to see here, move along. :p
  25. TaradosGon SWTV Mod - Like Palpatine with animals

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    That was my thinking originally when I thought they were related. Not necessarily anagrams, but I have a very keen interest in the Sengoku period of Japan, and many historical samurai clans would pass down segments of their names. I use the warlord Nobunaga as an example, just because I know the names of some of his kids off the top of my head. But the "Nobu" portion of his name gets passed down to descendants. Nobunaga had three kids: Nobutada, Nobuo, and Nobutaka. And Nobunaga's father was Nobuhide.

    I know nothing of the Mandalorians (or very, very little). But as a warrior/clan based society, I immediately thought that with Sabine's name that maybe they are drawing inspiration from the Japanese society in which passing down portions of names was common. And that even if Sabine was not related to Satine by blood, that maybe she adopter her name to honor Satine (but I wouldn't know why), or possibly was adopted into Satine's clan. Which again, was not uncommon in samurai society. Nagao Kagetora was a vassal to a man named Uesugi Norimasa, but Kagetora adopted the name Uesugi Kenshin and I believe was adopted by Norimasa, and then Kenshin when on to be a prominent warlord and probably most famous member of a clan that he was adopted into.

    I don't know why I expected such convoluted explanations to relate Sabine to Satine, even if only in the most peripheral of ways. Probably because I'm familiar with such convoluted clan relationships and name changes from Japanese history.

    I was disappointed to learn that it was just a completely coincidental thing.

    Still, I'm fine with them not being related by blood. But still hope that maybe they form some bridge between Sabine and Satine. Again, pulling from Japanese history, there are times when one warlord would defeat another, but instead of killing him would make the defeated warlord adopt one of the victorious warlord's sons, so that the victorious warlord's bloodline would come to control his rival's clan.

    Even if they did something like that. Say that following Satine's death the pacifist government collapsed and Mandalorians from outside Sundari began to reclaim the city with a powerful warlord beating the snot out of the remainder of Clan Kryze and forcing whomever succeeded to head of the clan to adopt his daughter, who then took the name Sabine as sort of a political gesture, but is from the Wren clan.

    So even something like that means that Sabine is not related to Clan Kryze by blood in any way, and may not even have an amicable relationship with them since the arrangement was forced upon them by another Mandalorian clan, but still is destined to take over the clan and explains the name. Even if such a relationship isn't on Filoni's radar now, perhaps as her story unfolds he can retroactively establish such a relationship. I know most people don't care, but I just think that by drawing inspiration from medieval Japan, there's a lot of stuff they could do that I actually think could be very interesting.

    Even if they mirrored Leia, but turned it on its head. With Leia being the adopted daughter of Bail who is a princess and has claim to the throne of the peaceful world of Alderaan, while Sabine is adopted by the Kryze clan (through coercion following violence), and is set to inherit a clan of pacifists that she holds in contempt, pretty much making her name ironic, since she's tearing down Satine's legacy.

    I just think there are possibilities there to relate the characters, even in unorthodox ways, not just merely "is the daughter of Bo-Katan" or "is not the daughter of Bo-Katan."
    Last edited by TaradosGon, Mar 19, 2014
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