Rebels Sabine

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by newdawn12, Feb 16, 2014.

  1. Senator Kelberry Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 22, 2010
    star 3
    I tend to skip over forum posts on any fan forum for something I like, not just this one, whenever that term (or any 'trope' in general) pops up. The only reason I stopped to read yours is the graphic jumped out at me. :)

    I don't care for tropes in general and I agree this one is probably one of the worst. If I like a character, then I like them. If I don't like them, then I don't, and I'm not especially interested in what the writer was intending when creating them. I evaluate a character for themselves and don't make comparisons.
  2. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    ^^^^ This.

    Lately I've tried to use the term "pet character" instead of "Mary Sue" to describe the extra-special superpowered character whose seems to exist for the sole purpose of making the other characters look like schmucks. Apparently the term comes from Star Trek fan fiction and the real definition involves the character dying a martyr death; I'm probably as guilty of misusing the term as anyone.

    And I've noticed a lot of arguments about characters go back to author intent and whether the viewer has the right to dislike a character if the author intended for the character to have some trait that the viewer dislikes.

    Example: "The character is supposed to be that way as a role model to young girls."

    "The author is new to the universe and had to set his character apart by making him extraordinary."

    "The story is modeled after courtly love/tragic opera and the character fits in that way."

    Great. There are reasons the character has traits that I don't like.

    I still don't like the character.
    Senator Kelberry likes this.
  3. Vthuil Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2013
    star 4
    I'd question that, because I don't think the term has a meaning anymore.

    And bleck at the people making negative judgments about characters based on virtually nothing.
    Contessa and Praenomen Cognomen like this.
  4. HanJones Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2002
    star 2
    His given name could have been "Korkoron The Bold."
    Revanfan1 likes this.
  5. Darthmaul208 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 29, 2013
    star 3
    @Revanfan1 and @HanJones I got a friend to try TCW with that arc and he didn't like it but he made fun of the line "oh Corgie you saved me" and so now it's a running joke between us.
    Revanfan1 likes this.
  6. HanJones Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2002
    star 2
    What we can tell after two days and a two minute video clip. Luke didn't know he was Force sensitive until he met Obi-Wan and even then he still sucked at first against the remote on the Falcon.

    As for Sabine's hair color, they said she changes her clothes AND her hair color as she pleases. Maybe her natural color is closer to Satine or Obi-Wan's.
  7. HanJones Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2002
    star 2
    Well, she does seem to be the one plastering a version of the future Rebel Alliance logo all about. That could very well be something that helps bring disparate groups of rebels together. Don't forget, it is the Rebel ALLIANCE, therefore a collection of different rebel groups.
  8. Togruta Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 2010
    star 4
    I dunno. It just seems a rather lame talent to showcase compared to the other characters'.
  9. Heero_Yuy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 4
    I do get some of the concerns that they may be trying to hard to make a cool new breakout character everyone will just love. Similar points were made about Ahsoka too. Indeed, in some ways Sabine seems to have been made via a check list of things to make the fans squee.

    Cute tomboy? Check
    Asian? Check
    Mando? Check
    Flashy style? Check

    Next thing we know it'll be revealed that she spends her off hours wearing pig tails and a school girl uniform. . .

    *anxiously awaits latest news*
  10. Dark Lord Tarkas Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2011
    star 4
    If that is their goal they failed with me because she might just be the bottom of the list if I ordered the main characters by how much I'm looking forward to them.
  11. Praenomen Cognomen Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 24, 2013
    star 4
    I think I just figured out Mary-Sue paranoia...

    Most of us probably grew up as nerds or social outcasts of one sort or another, so either instantly-likable characters must be seen as totally unrealistic, or life is totally unfair. When, in fact... well, let's just say: I know some very likable people, and I'm not one of them, so the evidence leans toward the latter.

    Disclaimer: I'm no better than any of this, and I get that it's totally antisocial of me to point that out, but... doesn't mean it's wrong. [face_dunno] Anyway, just throwing it out there. Nobody have a cow.
    Last edited by Praenomen Cognomen, Feb 20, 2014
  12. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Yeah, my list is topped by Hera, miles above anyone else. Then Kanan and Zeb. Sabine and Ezra are at the bottom. Not to say I don't want to see them, just not as much as the others.
    Dark Lord Tarkas likes this.
  13. Sgt Crowfield Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 27, 1999
    star 4
    The character I can look forward to is yet to come, I hope :).
  14. Vthuil Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2013
    star 4
    That's a pretty sketchy argument. I was a social outcast and yet my attitude towards the Mary Sue Police culture has always been a mixture of skepticism and contempt.
  15. Praenomen Cognomen Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 24, 2013
    star 4

    Oh, me too, but I think that's perfectly logical: some of us turn to fantasy as a safe place to explore the imagination with the knowledge that not all characters and plots will be perfect, where others turn to it to see a very specific different world play out.

    Of course, that kind of Jungian mass-mind thing isn't as simple as analyzing everybody at once, but I will probably continue to see some validity there. And I need to be able to do that, or otherwise the Mary-Sue Police tend to rob me of some of my joy... because while some turn to fantasy for freedom and some turn to fantasy for justice, some must turn to psychoanalysis to understand why some take their fantasy so seriously and not get totally angry about that... :-B
    Last edited by Praenomen Cognomen, Feb 20, 2014
  16. Dark Lord Tarkas Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2011
    star 4
    We're starting out pretty close then because Kanan and Zeb are my top two and I also have Ezra at the bottom. I'm never big on the droids but I might even wind up liking Chopper better than Sabine and Ezra from the looks of it.
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
  17. BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 5
    Heero_Yuy likes this.
  18. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    I am not and never have been a social outcast and I cannot stand "too perfect" characters.
  19. TaradosGon Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4
    My worry that Sabine will be annoying trumps any concerns about her being a "pet character."

    Just because child characters so often are. Anakin from TPM was my least favorite character of TPM ditto for Boba from AOTC.

    Some notable mentions for kid characters I don't mind are John Connor from T2, Lex and Tim from Jurassic Park, and Newt from Aliens. But really in all these situations, they are kids along for the ride. They are not child prodigies that make the adults look like idiots and turn things into Home Alone. I say I don't mind Lex and Tim, but then in The Lost World we got Kelly who killed a raptor via gymnastics which I can't stand to this day.

    It's OK to have extraordinary kids, when the cast is extraordinary. Like, Robin never bothered me among the likes of Superman and Batman, nor do the kids of the X-Men. And so showing Ezra and Sabine as being extraordinarily gifted among such a crew would be OK. But showing them as being exemplary at the expense of other characters would bother me to no end. E.G. raptors kill a whole bunch of people and all the characters are running and treating them like a grave threat, but Kelly decides to do gymnastics and kills one, before receiving a witty remark from her father.
    Last edited by TaradosGon, Feb 20, 2014
  20. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    You just described what I call a pet character.

    Exemplary at the expense of the other characters.
  21. Praenomen Cognomen Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 24, 2013
    star 4

    And that's fine, but we're talking about nearly 50 years of general fandom using a term that doesn't even exist outside general fandom. That's a pretty focused trend. But I'm not accusing causation... simply correlation.

    I'm not accusing you of anything, because you just watch however it suits you, and that's fine... and I'm kinda doing the same thing with regard to my view of fandom. I'm the kind of person who generally takes people at their word and takes them seriously, and that can be overwhelming when I just don't see the basis for a common complaint; in finding a personal/psychological motivation behind a trend that bothers me, I take away its power to piss me off.

    I know you don't care about the analytical side of the conversation, so I don't mean to bore you; just saying, it's how I work through stuff. No offense intended, because this isn't directed anywhere in particular.
    Last edited by Praenomen Cognomen, Feb 20, 2014
  22. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    To say that I'm not a fan of stereotypes or generalizations about people is an understatement.

    I say that if someone is misusing the term "Mary Sue," that could be addressed, and if it's just a matter of one fan disliking a "too perfect" character when another fan likes such a character, chalk it up to different tastes and move along.

    There's really no need for anyone's joy to be robbed by another person's dislike anyway.
    CT-867-5309 likes this.
  23. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    Besides being an accurate description, I like throwing around Mary Sue because it makes me sound like an insane nerd. It's the perfect term to use in a nerd rant.
    Bleck at people making positive judgments about characters based on virtually nothing. There are plenty of people who have already declared their love for these characters and have pinned all their hopes and dreams on them.

    I don't see much difference.


    Personally, I was a Mary Sue growing up, I was instantly likable. So maybe that means I hate myself! Mary Sues remind me of......ME!
    EHT, anakinfansince1983 and Togruta like this.
  24. Praenomen Cognomen Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 24, 2013
    star 4


    I never said I liked it that way... just that it happens. [face_dunno]

    Anyway, we're not getting into the line between generalizations and statistics. Let's just leave it at this: I am a fan of studying pop-cultural mass psychology, and you are not. In your favor, I admit that this is nothing but empty conjecture on my part, and I'm just throwing an idea around... but in my defense, might we admit there's a bit of a conflict of interest, you getting into this particular topic as someone who specifically doesn't care about the analysis? I mean, I'm a recovering alcoholic, but I wouldn't think of stopping you from talking about drinking wine... so, throw me a bone here, eh? [face_clown]
    Last edited by Praenomen Cognomen, Feb 20, 2014
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
  25. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    "Liked" that because it's one of the best agree-to-disagree posts I've ever read. [face_peace]
    Praenomen Cognomen likes this.