Saga Significance of film quotes

That's what i was pointing at Kooky! Nice name

Anyway, you can clearly see Obi made the famous 180 troughout the saga.

 

Definitely. He starts out as someone who always needs hard evidence, logic to back things up. He is constantly worrying, while Qui-Gon reminds him to focus on the present, on the living force. I think it takes the lessons of the whole PT (probably especially RotS), for Obi-Wan to find a balance in himself between being logical (which he still is in the OT) and trusting his gut.

He becomes more like Qui-Gon is in TPM as he gets older. I think this is because he learns that just because he likes things orderly and strict, that's not the best way to teach others (especially the Skywalkers, with their heads always in the clouds). The way Obi-Wan trains Luke is much more patient and grandfatherly, as opposed to how he trains Anakin which is like a strict father. He's finally become more attuned to the living Force, and to his feelings, after 20 years of not having the rules of the Jedi to fall back on. Here are some examples of what I mean.



Qui-Gon: Remember, concentrate on the moment. Feel. Don't think. Trust your instincts.
---
Obi-Wan (AOTC): Patience. Use the Force. Think.
---
Obi-Wan (ANH): This time, let go your conscious self and act on instinct... Stretch out with your feelings!


This is a great thread, by the way

-sj loves kevin spacey

 

Yeah, I agree! Let's keep it up!

How about this one:

'I care for you too, but...

...You miss your mother'

This line here deals with the core issue of his life, and in reaction to this his motivations and choices.

Basicly you could say he is cut off from his mother. He's wounded, already. He misses her and he's started searching for a replacement. The only person in his life who possibly could fill this hole is ofcourse Padme. So he's trying to get a relation with her, a connection. This he tries trough the Jappor Snippet. He offers, she accepts; a bond has been created.
I don't believe this was a rational choice from Anakin's part, but rather a very subtle and subconsious move.

 

Again to use this quote
Jocasta Nu speaking about QGJ and Dooku
" Oh, yes. They were alike in many ways. Very individual thinkers...idealists."

You have to wonder why Dooku developed to be an individual thinker. Why? His master Yoda speaks only in dogma. Yoda would always tell his apprentice Dooku everything in dogma. In rebellion against Yoda's distict personality Dooku began to think on his own. He began to question things and see the flaws in the Jedi order. He passed his "question the council" trait to his apprentice QGJ. QGJ would always rebel against the council and exceed his mandate. Because of this it forced his apprentice Obi-Wan to become a more to the book type of guy that follows the council.

Anakin realizes that QGJ went passed his mandate and because of that Anakin became free. So Anakin chooses to be a thinker also and to question. Anakin also happens to do this because he gets sick of the dogma of Obi-Wan.

I think it is an interesting cycle.

 

I don't really have quotes, but I watched TPM this morning, and the scenes where Qui Gon and and the council is discussing "a vergence" and the prophecy. I used to think this scene was poorly and listlessly acted, but in retrospect, what comes across is poorly masked trepidation - the council perhaps realizes that the dark side has become strong enough (and they in turn are losing their sensitivity to the force) that the one who will bring balance has finally arrived. When the whole conversation is viewed in the context of Yoda's admission in AOTC that the Jedi are practically blind, it really is somewhat of an ominous scene. TPM is a much more subtle movie than I ever gave it credit for.

Oh, and my significant quote is in my signature....

 

I agree, TPM is very subtle, that's why I like it so much.

At one point in TPM Qui-gon calls Watto his 'blue friend'. It's funny he calls him this way because Watto is the problem between him and his objective, to free Anakin, or in a more general way, to follow his insights, to use or to be one with the force.

In ROTJ Palpatine calls Vader his 'friend' as well. At first i saw it as a coincidence, but eventually I started seeing a connection, a connection between Sidious and Qui-gon.

Both are idealists, both have a vision, and live for it, completely . Gui-gon wants to serve the force, and Sidious wants to have revenge and rule the galaxy. Both are manipulating the turn of events*, to realise their ideals. Both use the same magic methods, like the wizards of old: If something negative is in your way, simply turn in into a something positive and it will turn in your advantage; Sidious just as Gui-gon knows everything has multiple viewing points, and they both play into this. There is only one essential difference. Gui-gon serves the force, the balance of the whole and Sidious serves himself, his Ego, which will ultimately destroy everything, including himself.

*To Palpatine there are only events, life is one big coincidence. To Quigon, events, or the 'reality' sprout from the force, the 'ideality' if you like.

 

very good observations Tokio_Drifter.

And another thing, the first film in the saga is dominated by QGJ and in the end he dies.

The last film in the saga is dominated by Sidious and in the end he dies.

-Seldon

 

Thanks Seldon, it also connects very well with your post in which your talked about the dogma of the Council.

It made me realise how it was possible Palpatine/the Darkside came to be in the first place. The council lost their idealistic nature, you could say they, well, stopped dreaming. The truth they 'believed' in became dogmatic*, a set of concrete rules, to live by and not to question. Slowly, probably through the centuries, they became more and more dependant of these rules, loosing their touch with the force. They lost their natural relation with the whole, an idealistic, ever changing one. And this wall which arose between the Jedi and the force, what can it possibly be? Palpatine? The Darkside? Ego? The mask?

Unconditional believe stands on it's own, it doesn't need proof. Dogmatic truth is a dependable truth which relies on proof and fact.

 

"You're sure the homing beacon is secure aboard their ship? I'm taking and awful risk, Vader. This had better work."

-Tarkin
ANH

I think this quote is funny in a way.
In TPM Padme did not trust that small boy, how could they put their faith in a boy they hardly knew?

In AOTC Obi-Wan doubts Anakin during the speeder chase. The whole short cut thing.

In ANH Tarkin doubts Vader about the homing beacon.

This guy Vader/Anakin always manages to do well, but people always doubt him across the Saga.

-Seldon

 

"Don't look back, don't look back"

-Episode I, Shmi Skywalker to Anakin as she says goodbye

Any mythologists out there? The myth of Orpheus, who tried to bring his dead wife back from Hades, and was warned to not look back at her when they were climbing the stairs back to the world, comes to mind.

That one line strikes me because it symbolizes Anakin's fear of change, which leads to anger, hate, suffering etc. He goes back to Tatooine to find his mother in Episode II and that is when the transformation takes place...

 

"He will be a Jedi, I promise you" -Qui-Gon about Anakin (I think that's right).
"I can turn him...to the Good Side. I have to try"- Luke talking to Leia about their father.

I find these two quotes interestin because of their similarites. Qui-Gon was the only one who TRULY BELIEVED that Anakin should be trained to be a Jedi. Luke was the only one who TRULY BELIEVED that Anakin could be saved from being Darth Vader anymore. Once was when Anakin began his path, one was when he was at the end of it.

 

Marco, I would say that what caused the decline of the Jedi was their becoming apathetic to their faith (if that's what you call it). It became something they really took for granted, their connection to the Force and all it gave them. They started to think themselves probably a little better than others, and forgot that they did nothing to deserve their gifts. They started becoming puppets of the Senate rather than servants of those they were supposed to be using their gifts to help.

I was just wondering where all in the saga there are promises made and what we can conclude about those. I have felt that it's one of the most interesting and complex themes in the saga. I'd like to examine it more. So I looked them all up because I'm a nerd My apologies ahead of time if this list is incomplete. And please, someone tell me if some of these didn't end up in the movies because I went from the scripts and a few lines/words were cut when they actually filmed.



TPM
"And no one else has a T-14 hyperdrive, I promise you that."- Watto

"I.. will become a Jedi and I will come back and free you, Mom...I promise."- Anakin

"Anakin will become A Jedi...I promise you."- Qui-Gon

"I promise, Your Majesty, if I am elected, I will bring democracy back to the Republic."- Palpatine

"I welcome your help. Senator Palpatine fears the Federation means to destroy me."-Amidala
"I promise you, I will not let that happen."- Qui-Gon

"Obi-Wan promise...promise me you'll train the boy..." - Qui-Gon
"Yes, Master." - Obi-Wan

"You will become a Jedi, I promise."- Obi-Wan



AOTC

None. There were several in the script, but I'm fairly certain all uses of the word 'promise' were omitted from the movie. Correct me if I'm wrong. Rather interesting.


ROTS

Haven't seen it yet


ANH

Again, none. There was one instance by Owen, but I don't think that was in the film...


ESB

"Master Yoda, I promise to return and finish what I've begun. You have my word."- Luke

"I will. And I'll return. I promise."- Luke

"Princess, we'll find Han. I promise."- Lando


ROTJ

"I have a promise I have to keep... to an old friend."- Luke

"Right. I got your promise now. Not a scratch."- Han



-sj loves kevin spacey

 

Rachel ,

then we were talking about the same thing if i'm not mistaken: what I was trying to say was the faith of the Jedi became dogmatic (based upon their judgement) instead of a unconditional believe in the Force, like Qui-gon and even Luke (probably without even knowing it).

It's the same 180 Obi and others make later on, only, this time, backward. Instead of them beeing dependant on the force, and believing in it unconditionally, they thought they had finally understood the force, 'grasped' it and so the force became, eventually, dependant on them. (which happenend ofcourse over a course of thousands of years, and 'forced' the force to act upon this...to restore balance)

This whole 'new way' made them in reaction well 'the gods' of 'their' universe, independend (alone) and above 'nature'. This is ofcourse symbolised though the Jedi Tempel, and Council; the ivory tower.

They (re)defined the universe, but because of this they placed themselves outside the sphere of life, and by doing so they lost the practical touch with the force, indeed, that what we call the Living Force nowadays.

A perfect example of this is presented to us in AOTC, where the archive droids aren't able to recall the origin of the Kamino dart, while field expert Dex, who has 'seen things' in his life, knows the truth.

'I wish you Jedi had a little bit more respect for the difference between Knowwwledge and...hheheh.. Wisdommm' or something like that lol.

 

solojones - Wasn't there on in ANH where Owen promises that luke can go to whereever next year???

(bit fuzzy on that one and good job by the way )

 

Yes, Marco, we definitely agree there. And I think one of the best lessons in the saga is taught through Obi-Wan's life and the changes he goes through. It's easy to say you believe in something when that's what you've been raised to believe in and it's never been tested. But once the Jedi Order is gone, and Obi-Wan has had so many of his ideals tested, he comes to a real crisis point in his life. We see in the OT, however, that he has not lost faith. Yoda even very much doubts Luke, and while Obi-Wan has doubts based on reality and experience, I believe he has more faith than Yoda. I could go into this more, but as it's not completely relevant to this thread, I'll save that discussion either for a PM with you or for later when I bring it up in my story

Thanks, Kooky. I think there's a lot to be examined there in the quotations about promises so please, anyone who has any thoughts, go ahead. I kind of wanted to hear the thoughts of others first.

And I think Owen might promise Luke he can go to the Academy next year, yes. Even if he doesn't say 'promise', it's still kind of implied that he has in the past so we can use that one.

-sj loves kevin spacey

 

solojones,
I too noticed the number of "promises" in the films. Who kept theirs and who didn't??

 

"Anakin and GuiGon looking up at the stars"

Anakin: I wanna be the first one to see them all..

----

He went from wanting to see all the stars to leading entire legions of so-called "star-destroyers".

 

^^

I also took this as he wanted to see all the stars and then ended up spending 20+ years of his life on ships "stormtrooping" the galaxy. So even if he didn't see them all.........he might have seen more than anyone else.

 

I would say this line also implies his potential will to greatness, and seen in a negative light, power.

 

You can also compare Anakin looking at the stars to Luke looking at the setting suns.
Anakin looks up with hope that he will see them all. He never doubts the fact that he will leave Tatooine and go on to better things. Luke looks at the setting suns in frustration that he will never get off that rock and make his dreams come true. In both cases they are looking to the future rather then concentrating on where they are and what they are doing!

-Seldon

 

?The force will be with you, always.?

(I love the way 'Ben' brings this line, especially the pause between you and always, great stuff.)

It seems Obi Wan is quite sure about the outcome of the story, almost if it's just a matter of time. The force will be with you forever, so everything will be just fine, or something like that.

Episode II
It reminded me of Mace Windu, in the deleted scene, where he tells Obi wan that he has to have faith in the choices young Anakin makes. He says this with great confidence. This stood out to me as an very practical example of the philosophy of the unifying force; Obi wan his rightly concern, considering the moment (at that point), is being overlooked by the great Windu, by trusting the prophecy unconditionally.

Episode IV.
It seems to me that Obi Wan really and finally understood the force in a whole new light: No matter what happens, or what choices you make, the force will be with you always, which implies that it is always possible to return to the light*. This is a ?passive? (on it?s own) understanding from the unifying force pov . But at the same time, he embraces the moment (as stated before in this topic) regarding Luke his ?active? development as a adept. This means he has become complete, trough ?unifying? and ?using? both sides of the force. So he doesn't merely represent Quigon his way by ? just doing?, 'or', the counsil in their ?passive?, unifying ways, no he represents both.

Maybe this is why in the OT we only here ?them? speak about the force as a whole.


*This also could explain why Anakin could be redeemed: The force was still with him, deep inside his corrupted flesh, a spark of essence still excisted, and 'always' would.

 

When Palpatine is about to kill Luke he says
"Young fool, only now at the end do you understand."
then the scene cuts to Vader getting up.

The line applies to Anakin/Vader very well. Anakin is the young fool who suddenly understands that he has been a puppet and a slave and that his son is about to be killed.

-Seldon

 

"We can only protect you, we can't fight a War for you"
Qui-gon

"We are keepers of the peace, we can't fight a war for you" (don't remember if that's exact)
Mace Windu

"War not make one great"
Yoda

They did fight in the clone wars, after the two pt comments were made. Not only that but they were the only real people fighting in the Clone Wars (let's remember that the wars were basically between droids and clones, both elements of science, is SW science is for the most part an agent of the dark side), which this probably cut the Jedi numbers in half.
This was one of thier true downfalls, they killed themselves off for an unworthy cause(Dooku led the Seperatists, a group that wanted to break away, not inflict harm(ideally anyway)), only to give power to the very men who would complete thier extermination.
Yoda's line may be reflective on this fact.

Also in many ways if you look at Lukes approach to enemies vs. Anakins they are different.
Anakin has lashed out needlessly at his foes a few times(Sandpeople, Dooku at the begining of the duel), Luke takes other approches(sneaking on the Death Star incognito, sneaking onto Bespin, sneaking onto Endor,
and finally deciding not to kill his opponent Vader).
These lines may have some bearing on this as well


"The more you tighten your grip, the more star systems that will slip through your hands"
Liea

This is what the Republic tried to do, this is what Palpatine counted on it doing, squeezing it's grip on star systems, not in a harmful way, but as i said above, the clone wars were about keeping all of the systems within it's power.
It's ironic that this worked for Palpatine's advantage in the PT, and worked against him in the OT

"Aren't you a little short for a Stormtrooper"
Liea

Cheesy but I love it, all the Storm Troopers are clones, they are the exact same hieght. I've heard that by the OT half are volunteers, but that takes all of the fun out of it, come on you never see a Stormtrooper without it's helmet, how do you know?

 

"We can rule the galaxy as father and son"
Darth Vader

"Master, you're the closest thing I have to a father"
Anakin

"What I told you was the truth from a certain point of view"
OB1
just thought of this, don't know how much merit it has but here it goes.
Anakin never had a father, as he said in AOTC OB1 was his father figure, although they were great friends they were very different in views of the world(that quote just kindof goes loosely with this link). As we all know Anakin and OB1 are to fight, there most likely is a scene of one pleading to the other(most likely OB1 to Anakin, maybe Anakin to OB1) to join them. The lines Vader speaks to Luke are a definite mirror to the situation Anakin and OB1 are to go through(went through, whatever), maybe Vader's plea is more to either himself(to join OB1) or OB1 (to join, accept,?)Vader. I believe when the Saga is seen completely those to scenes are going to mirror eachother greatly.

 

also to add to my above posts

Only used for knowledge of events, never attack
Yoda

Ep 2 is named Attack of the Clones (The Jedi are leading the clones), you think there's something to this.

sorry just trying to keep this board alive