Lit Sam Witwer "Karen Traviss, She Didn't Get Everything Right"

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Robimus, Jan 27, 2013.

  1. Iron_lord Chosen One

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    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    What we see is officers getting killed. Anakin leading the troops into the temple is separate from that.

    Since that formulation of the order was in True Colors- it's entirely possible that Traviss had been told about Order 66 before the movie came out- and thus her interpretation came from the limited information she had when she started writing.
  2. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

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    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    You can't "genetically implant" an order.

    If they're conditioned to follow orders, they can be ordered to keep Order 66 secret. Easy-peasy.
  3. Mange Force Ghost

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    Jan 11, 2003
    star 4
    In the publisher's summary to the novel The Last Jedi that's released on February 26 it says:
    "Ever since Emperor Palpatine's Order 66--which called for the execution of all Jedi", TFN: Catching Up With the Expanded Universe
    I guess we'll learn more soon enough.

    Pure conjecture and it really doesn't seem that way.
    Last edited by Mange, Feb 3, 2013
  4. Iron_lord Chosen One

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    And? "Traviss ignored previously established information about Order 66" is an assertation- I'd like to see a bit of evidence.

    In Star Wars on Trial, Traviss's account of writing, way back in March 2004:

    "Those poor bloody clones, used and discarded ... and of course I was told about Order 66 from the start."
    Last edited by Iron_lord, Feb 3, 2013
  5. Mange Force Ghost

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    Jan 11, 2003
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    Then ask Witwer for it. Traviss did miss information when she formulated Order 66 in True Colors such as Palpatine not being the Supreme Commander of the Grand Army of the Republic until the very last few days of the Clone Wars (as per the ROTS novelization).
  6. Iron_lord Chosen One

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    Wasn't it the original Guide to the Grand Army article, published in Star Wars Insider way back shortly after AoTC, that established that:

    "The Grand Army consists of all 10 systems armies, led by the Commander-in-Chief (Supreme Chancellor Palpatine)"

    And the RoTS novelization has been wrong before- most notoriously when it claimed Padme was the youngest ever queen of Naboo.

    EDIT: Apparently not- apparently the Guide to the Grand Army was in SW Insider 84, in September 2005, whereas the novelization was in April 2005. Still, as we all know, Traviss doesn't read novels- only synopsises- and watches movies.
    Last edited by Iron_lord, Feb 3, 2013
  7. Robimus Force Ghost

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    Jul 6, 2007
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    I thought that basically all all Jedi held an official rank in the GAR. Jedi Knights and Masters were Generals, while Padawans were Commanders.

    The attack on the Jedi Temple in the ROTS novel seems to me to be a seperate act, ordered by Palpatine, that starts to take place before Order 66 is given. Then in the Order 66 novel its mentioned that the 501st are hunting Jedi children, making up a bogus charge that they had stolen classified information to legitimize the hunt.

    Even the film shows the march on the Jedi Temple beginning before Order 66 is given. Then when Bail confronts the clones they mention to him that there has been a rebellion - nothing about Order 66 itself. It seems to me that Order 66 and some of the other events surrounding the Jedi extermination, while connected, were not all by products of the exact same command.

    Is there evidence somewhere that Order 66 was suppost to mean 'all Jedi'?

    What are you seeing there that I am not?
    Last edited by Robimus, Feb 3, 2013
  8. _Catherine_ Chosen One

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    I thought Palpatine only took control of the Jedi Council in ROTS, which was how he forced them to let Anakin join. Presumably he always had authority over the GAR.
  9. Mange Force Ghost

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    Jan 11, 2003
    star 4
    It was through the amendment to the Security Act (passed the day after the Battle of Coruscant) that Palpatine became Supreme Commander (and also given the authority to disband the Jedi Order). I think it's pretty clear that the Jedi Council acted as a Supreme Command, plotting the various operations. When do we ever see Palpatine acting as a CIC?
    Last edited by Mange, Feb 3, 2013
  10. MercenaryAce Force Ghost

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    Aug 10, 2005
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    As for the point of view endorsed by the Clone Wars - well, we already had Slick and Cut, and Filoni talks a lot about giving clones characterization and personality. If it ever comes up, I will bet that the show comes down on the side of it not being genetically programed.
  11. CT-867-5309 Chosen One

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    Jan 5, 2011
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    Well, TCW is making it clear that any point of view besides its own is irrelevant and (usually) never happened.

    So whatever TCW has to say about it, is the real deal.

    I don't know why we even bother mentioning previous Clone Wars material.
    Esg likes this.
  12. GGrievous Chosen One

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    It will erase the smile from Filoni's face.
  13. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

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  14. Rogue_Follower Manager Emeritus

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    More like... DAIMAN CAT IS EMO. AND YOUR CREATOR. BOW BEFORE HIM.
  15. RC-1991 Force Ghost

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    Dec 2, 2009
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    Man, I just now figured out that regular users could type in larger font sizes.
  16. Robimus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2007
    star 5
    Because that is the material we enjoy more.

    And it is still all canon, one way or another.. Reaves new book appears to be more proof of that.
  17. Zorrixor Chosen One

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    Sep 8, 2004
    star 6
    [face_laugh]

    That was the very first thing that I thought of too. [face_laugh]
  18. instantdeath Force Ghost

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    Jul 22, 2010
    star 5
    That makes a great deal of sense... he made what was once a spectacular sub-genre of hardcore punk into a fashion style/social aesthetic that has absolutely nothing to do with the original, at least in the public conscious. I suppose Our Lord Creator has the right to make me suffer. :(

    Eh, a part of me realizes still lamenting the whole emo bastardization is a ridiculously petty pet peeve. But only a small part.

    But that's all beside the point. The important thing is that that cat is both humbling and terrifying, as any deity should be.
  19. Iron_lord Chosen One

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    Sep 2, 2012
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    We see him issue the order to Anakin to leave Jabiim in the Republic comic series, as I recall.
  20. Mange Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 11, 2003
    star 4
    I'll check that out but it seems like an outlier. It seems as if the Jedi leadership of the GAR also was questioned in some circles of the Republic military:
    TCW Facebook
    Last edited by Mange, Feb 4, 2013
  21. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

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    Umbara, too.
    rumsmuggler likes this.
  22. Ordo Skirata Jedi Grand Master

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    Sep 3, 2012
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    It might have been at one point, but it has since been fixed by the Essential Guide to War and the Essential Atlas.

    And that's just your opinion. Many people really like her Star Wars works.
  23. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

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    Was just reading a recap of the TCW USO event, and there's interesting bit from Filoni and Dee Bradley Baker regarding what will or will not happen when the order comes down:

    [face_thinking]
    Last edited by CooperTFN, Feb 5, 2013
  24. MercenaryAce Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 10, 2005
    star 5
    Teases.

    Though I guess this means they haven't decided themselves and it is as much open for debate amongst the cast and crew as it among fans.

    Which reminds me - fandom does have a tendency to unconsciously assume that the production team is some kind of hive mind that instantly reaches consensus on things, but from what I understand debates at the office can mirror debates online - it is just that they have the incentive to reach some kind of decision quickly in order to actually make the product.

    Oh, and they do contribute to the image by generally acting united and excited in interviews.
  25. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

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    I read it as "I've decided exactly what happens, I just haven't had an opportunity to sell you on it pesonally." Between Lucas and Filoni, I don't know that there's really that much of a debate about things as big as that.