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Lit Sam Witwer "Karen Traviss, She Didn't Get Everything Right"

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Robimus, Jan 27, 2013.

  1. GGrievous

    GGrievous Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 6, 2005
    sadface.jpg
     
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  2. JackG

    JackG Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Aug 15, 2011
    I don't think that has anything to do with Palpatine being a Sith Lord. I would think that the Commander-in-chief of the Grand Army of the Republic and the Supreme Chancellor of the Galactic Senate would deserve to be referred to as 'my lord'.

    I'm sure TCW will turn the clones into brainwashed, sad figures for killing the Jedi, instead of the obedient and complicit executors from the EU. Because, you know, the clones are the good guys on the show.
     
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  3. credar

    credar Jedi Master star 3

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    Sep 18, 2011
    I'm not sure about that. They have been getting pretty dark on the show. My personal theory is that they will end up being obedient (Except for those who developed full massive personalities, who will have a mental crisis) However, I will be fine with whatever one works. The brainwashing one makes Palpatine seem more evil IMO because he's able to control these poo warriors at his command.
     
  4. Esg

    Esg Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    TCW really needs to stop going out of it's way to try to make the Republic look squeaky clean when it's run by a damn Sith Lord. I mean a Jedi even once accidentally blew up a Planet to stop a Separatist Secret Weapon.
     
  5. Robimus

    Robimus Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 6, 2007
    Even in the EU 99.99 percent of the clones were obedient. Its just that there isn't a lot of story to tell there so the writers, be they novel, or comic or TV, often go more for the other angle.

    It would be tough to make someone care about a human droid. The human condition on the other hand, thats a blank slate.
     
  6. GGrievous

    GGrievous Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Nov 6, 2005
    The Republic's citizens will then cry themselves to sleep. All is lost.
     
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  7. Esg

    Esg Jedi Knight star 4

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    Sep 2, 2012
    Awfully LACWAC of you
     
  8. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 6 VIP

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    Jul 8, 1999
    As usual, I don't know if you're arguing or agreeing.
     
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  9. Rogue_Follower

    Rogue_Follower Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2003
    I hear simply dreadful things about that LACWAC. Is there no fun allowed there either? :p

    Oh yes, lest I forget: the "no author bashing" umbrella extends to TCW writers and creators. Including Filoni. (I know, right?) You can still criticize them, but if you can't find a polite way to do it... don't do it.

    We've already had 1.2 million "TCW sucks, sad panda trombone" discussions...
     
  10. Robimus

    Robimus Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Jul 6, 2007
    When the Essential Guide to LACWAC hits the book stores we will have a dictionary to help with that :p
     
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  11. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 6 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1999
    I need an Essential Guide to Esg. It will be half anime screencaps.
     
  12. RC-1991

    RC-1991 Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 2, 2009
    FOR PANDALORE!

    [​IMG]
     
  13. _Catherine_

    _Catherine_ Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jun 16, 2007
    The best I can figure out is that Lucas was writing the script and he gets to this part and he thinks to himself, "Hmm, what should the bad man say now? Should it be codeword, like 'begin Operation Hot-Zone Kill'? No, that sounds stupid. What about a number? What's like an evil-sounding number? Hmm. Well, 666. No, that's too obvious. How about just 'execute Order 6'? No, that's too simple, it makes it sound like they don't get that many orders to begin with. What about Order 66? Okay that works, let's move on."
     
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  14. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 6 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1999
    Or if you'e gonna go full Manchurian Candidate, why say "execute" anything? "Wedge Antilles hops on one transparisteel leg" ring any bells?
     
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  15. instantdeath

    instantdeath Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 22, 2010
    I personally see a huge difference in disliking the voice and claiming bad acting. It's not as clear a correlation as some believe. I frequent a lot of music forums, and I see the argument that "if I don't like the way it sounds, it sucks" a lot... which personally threatens to make me break out in hives. This is especially jarring when describing entire genres of music. It's one thing to hate the way it sounds, but another thing to totally discount any talent displayed. I see this most often for heavy metal music, particularly of the extreme metal variety :(

    My point is, I can understand why some might find Witwer's voice annoying, or whiny, but he really does have chops as an actor. He's not my favorite ever or anything, but he's a far cry from talentless.

    I agree with Coop on this one. I'll admit I haven't ventured into LACWAC in months (there are some places that man is not meant to dwell), but I definitely don't remember being reasonable a common trait there :p. Though these days I'm not particularly fond of negativity for negativity sake. If this keeps up I'm in danger of becoming an optimist...
     
  16. Robimus

    Robimus Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Jul 6, 2007
    Thats borkus.[face_monkey]
     
  17. blackmyron

    blackmyron Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 29, 2005
    The main problem with this? The Holocron. Leland is privy to insider information - he's made that clear that Lucas' unpublished, personal notes are in there. That the book Order 66 was written without somehow any change - and the nature of Order 66 is an important part of that - makes me call shennanigans on the explanation. If that's Lucas' story now, I doubt it was then.

    Also, after Celebration I really don't blame Filoni for most of what happened with the CWAS and the EU, but ultimately, I'm more concerned with results than good intentions. With Lucas (mostly) out of the picture, we'll see how that translates to action in upcoming seasons.
     
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  18. Karohalva

    Karohalva Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    May 27, 2008
    Thematically, it is a simple matter. As extrapolated from her website, Karen Traviss, like most humans, doesn't like when one group of people is elevated and revered as possessing superior wisdom and virtue. To her it reeks of arrogance and condescension. Therefore, she devoted much effort to countering the halo around Jedi by means of promoting her pet project of Mandalorians as an alternative embodiment of virtue. Hence, for her, Order 66 being a secular (for lack of a better term) contingency plan frees the Galactic Republic and society being obliged to exist contingently to the Jedi-Sith ideological divide. Apparently, Witwer disagrees, and I reckon he prefers the fairy tale flavor created by Lucas, namely where good is good because it likes kittens, rainbows, and unicorns whilst bad is bad because it likes kicking puppies and cackling maniacally. For all intents and purposes, this is a characteristic of myth as opposed to realism. Good is good and bad is bad. Characters may be conflicted as they choose sides, but they must choose nonetheless. Unfortunately for Traviss, this is Star Wars where the Jedi are representative of superior wisdom and virtue. Apparently, Witwer prefers this, and therefore asserts Order 66 is a matter of good versus evil, being all about the battle between light and dark, not political secularism.

    As for Dave Filoni, for all the complaints about TCW, I posit this: at least it isn't the Jedi Prince series.
     
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  19. TrakNar

    TrakNar Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Apr 4, 2011
    You need to post here more often, Karo.
     
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  20. Karohalva

    Karohalva Jedi Knight star 2

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    May 27, 2008
    But then I'd be obliged to answer when people reply to me.
     
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  21. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    I wish they'd try, though. Conflict and angst over an order you're uncomfortable with? Righteously defying or subverting orders? You can get that anywhere. The clones offer a unique opportunity to try to get inside the minds of a person who unhesitatingly obeys an order that puts them against their colleague and doesn't even think to question it. Not because he's some kind of zombie triggered by a phrase -- that doesn't tell you anything either -- but simply because he's been so drilled and trained to take orders. It's a unique mindset, something really interesting, and I'd love to see some more exploration of that psychology. "Aw, shucks, you can go," is safe. Trying to depict what's going on in Cody's or Bly's mind? That's challenging and exciting.
     
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  22. JackG

    JackG Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Aug 15, 2011
    This reminds me of the thought that Cody has as he receives the Order in the RotS novel:
     
  23. Zorrixor

    Zorrixor Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 8, 2004
    I'm sure Witwer had something important to say, but I can't look at his face without just hearing the words:

    WHERE'S JUNO!?

    After that, it makes it hard to take anything he then says seriously. :p
     
  24. SithStarSlayer

    SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2003
    Didn't we just talk about this the other day. Is Sam lurking in LACWAC?:p
     
  25. Vialco

    Vialco Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Mar 6, 2007
    I'm so glad to hear that my arguments have been confirmed by the creator of Star Wars!