Lit Sam Witwer "Karen Traviss, She Didn't Get Everything Right"

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Robimus, Jan 27, 2013.

  1. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    In Jedi Academy Training Manual, it is noted that, while some groups like the Jensaarai have members that occasionally tap into the dark side and walk away seemingly untouched:

    "According to the Jedi, these individuals become tainted and carry the dark side's influence with them, whether they realize it or not. Some people claim to have witnessed a slow metamorphosis of these people's personalities over time as a result of their flirting with the dark side."

    In Vision of the Future, Zahn drops hints that Luke's dabbling with the dark side in Dark Empire changed him- which is why he acts as he does in JAT, Black Fleet Crisis, etc.
  2. Riven_JTAC Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2011
    star 3
    Chalk that up to incredibly poor writing in the Prequels. It makes no sense, yet a lot of us were numb to it from the beginning simply because it was another Star Wars movie and we wanted anything, good or bad.

    We'll see how the sequel trilogy does.
  3. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    Yes but the PT had the problem of constraining itself to a certain galactic status by the time of EP4. So alot of the plot, whether it was the Anakin/Padme romance or Order 66 was rushed. Honestly Ep 3 lead perfectly into EP 4. Now Ep 7 will not be constrained by anything. They can borrow from the EU should they choose, however the can tell whatever story they wish to tell.
  4. DARTH_MU Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2005
    star 4
    Question
    If it means even more SW movies, does it matter if the books are ignored?
  5. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    No it doesn't, I just want fan favorites to make the cut.
  6. Riven_JTAC Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2011
    star 3
    Objectively, no, not in the least.

    Subjectively, for people who love some of the EU works as much as they love the movies, then, yes, it does matter that the books aren't trampled.
  7. instantdeath Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2010
    star 5
    That's a very fair comparison. I'm not sure I'd say the dark side of the force itself is tainted (I hold the view that the Force itself does not have morality, or a separate light side or dark side, it's simply the way it's used), like saidin is in WOT, but it certainly taints those who use it. I've always found the ironic thing about the Sith code to be that their ultimate goal is to break their chains, to control the Force instead of being guided by it, but almost all of them become slaves to it.

    I'm already somewhat resigned to the idea of post-ROTJ getting an alternate timeline. I'd love it if everything was nice and neat, but... well, as I said in the SOS thread, Star Wars is the OT. If there's any era in SW that could deserve multiple visions, multiple interpretations, it's what happens to Luke, Leia and Han after ROTJ.

    But I'm not resigning myself to anything until we find out more.
    Last edited by instantdeath, Jan 28, 2013
  8. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    I have a good feeling about this (the EU).
  9. blackmyron Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2005
    star 5
    Even more importantly, so does the Jedi Council.
    RC-1991, Esg and GrandMasterKatarn like this.
  10. fett 4 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jan 2, 2000
    star 4
    Not really, Lucas built a rod for his own back from this when he didn't need to. Leaving aside the Technology issue and the fact that prototypes can do more than later models, it started in TPM, Having Anakin as a 9yr old and having Qui-gon discover him instead of Obi-wan were on balance stupid changes.
    Then there was the whole Clones issue itself, where have all the other Imperial guys that we see in the OT come from if all they need is to crank out a few more Fett clones.
    Let's not even go there with RTJ with Vader declaring "Obi-wan once thought as you do" when it really should be "Obi-wan declared that he love'd me and I was his brother, right while he watchig me burn to death" or Obi-wan being a bit more truthful the "he ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader and when that happened the whiney, pyschotic man who was your father was destroyed"
    Last edited by fett 4, Jan 28, 2013
    _Catherine_ likes this.
  11. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Stormtroopers were established as clones way back in the 70s:

    http://www.theforce.net/image_popup/...a/post4-03.jpg

    though later stories introduced nonclone troopers.
    rumsmuggler and Darth Balls like this.
  12. buylesslivemore Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 22, 2013
    tbh this is the first thread i have watched from the beginning really blow up.

    its crazy how off topic and hotly discussed it gets. awesome
  13. buylesslivemore Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 22, 2013
  14. TrakNar Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 4, 2011
    star 5
    Oh, this happens quite often. The longer you stick around, the more you'll see. It's great! :D
  15. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    Yes but by Episode 4, Luke and Leia had to be born, the mother had to be out of the picture, the Jedi had to be dead, the Empire in power, and Darth Vader had to be Darth Vader. In the ST, we won't be working forward to the known and impending plot of Episode 10 and the beloved Sequel to the Sequel Trilogy.
  16. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    [IMG]
    I saw this on the wook and thought of you... :D
    TrakNar likes this.
  17. Darth Balls Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 26, 2013
  18. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    From Star Wars Poster Monthly, TheForce.net has been getting the clippings:

    http://theforce.net/timetales/misc/arcana/arcana-1978.asp

    That particular one:

    STAR WARS: OFFICIAL POSTER MONTHLY #4
    Published January 1978 by Galaxy Publications. Text writers Jon Trux, John May, Anthony Fredrickson.
    Last edited by Iron_lord, Jan 29, 2013
    Darth Balls likes this.
  19. Darth Balls Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 26, 2013
    Awesome! Thanks so much, friend.
  20. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    It's interesting to note "clones are normal humans- yet are slaves with no rights" way back before Traviss's books.
  21. rumsmuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 31, 2000
    star 7
    I read that article many years ago, so not really imo. If she took the time to do any research before writing, she would have known that idea is old news.
  22. Karohalva Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 27, 2008
    star 2
    Thematically, there is no problem with the Jedi Order being mistaken or wrong here because neither the story nor narrative style rejects the light side, or at the very least a light side.
    Last edited by Karohalva, Jan 29, 2013
  23. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

    VIP
    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 1999
    star 6
    You're saying that a thirty-year-old article substantiating her point of view is an argument against her use of said point of view?
  24. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    35 years now.

    Witwer's saying that Order 66 was intended by Lucas to not be an "on the books" order- I'm curious, is there anything from that period refuting that- evidence that Traviss was specifically told to write a contingency order list by Lucas?
  25. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    I don't recall any. Probably not.