Amph Sands of Arrakis: The Works of Frank Herbert

Discussion in 'Archive: SF&F: Books and Comics' started by JediTrilobite, Jan 3, 2006.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. JediTrilobite Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 17, 1999
    star 7
    Who's a fan of Frank Herbert's books? They were the first non-Star Wars SciFi that I got around to reading, and it's currently one of my all time favorites. Herbert excells at world building, and I've found the book to be really absorbing.
  2. GrandAlmightyMaster Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2003
    star 2
    After I tried 3 times to read Dune I finally got into it. I'm about 30 pages from the end of it and loving it, hoping the rest of the books are as good as the first one.
  3. Coruscant Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2004
    star 6
    I have an S/F class this semester and Dune, of course, is on the reading list, but we don't start until late March or so. However, I've started reading it now (on page 130, after starting Wednesday night). I did this so by the time the class starts reading it, I'll have read it at least three or four times over so I can more fully get it, as our teacher says the first read only gives you about 40%, the next 60%, and all following reads 10% each.
  4. FatBurt Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 21, 2003
    star 5
    Dune is a fantastic book and your teacher is right to say that you only start to understand more as you re read them.

    The sequals are very good and well worth a read. It's a shame Herbert passed away before he could finish the final book which was to be set after Chapter House Dune and was to tie up the loose ends about the Honoured Matres.

    There are rumour though that his son may write the book based on Herberts extensive notes however this would be done in Partnership with KJA and if you've read the prequels you'll know that this is a move that some like and others are disparing at.
  5. Radical_Edward Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 2, 2002
    star 3
    Actually, Brian Herbert and KJA will be milking that cow for every cent they can. They aren't just writing the seventh book, they are writing at least two books that tack on to the end of Chapterhouse, and I wouldn't be surprised if they added another one or two or six before they declare that they have reached the chronological end of Dune.
  6. Pelranius Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 25, 2003
    star 5
    Why can't Brain just follow in the footsteps of Christopher Tolkein and publish the frickin notes?
  7. Lurking_Around Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2002
    star 6
    Ah, ol Franky's Dune books. I have a somewhat love/hate relationship with these books, not to mention moments of unintentional amusement thanks to Herbert's use of Islam's Mahdi legends (mostly from the Shiite side of Islam, considering the importance of bloodlines and the semi-divine status of the Mahdi) combined with the usual Messiah/hero stereotypes.

    I rather like the first three Dune books. 'Dune' was epic in scale, though that's a criticism as well, since sometimes the pacing annoys me and the characters just come and go (the rather early death of that delightful Piter is unforgivable as far as I'm concerned). Perhaps Herbert's best achievement yet also his greatest flaw is to make me interested in 'minor' characters like Irulan (who only appears mostly as the writer of the extracts at the beginning of the chapters) and Gurney while the main characters (mostly the sterotypical "primitive but oh-so-noble" Fremen like Stilgar and Chani) were for the most part range from mediocre to downright uninteresting.

    'Dune Messiah' was a far better book for me. Less emphasis on being "epic" (understandably, those who liked the first book end up hating the second book), better focus (most of the action takes place on Arrakis, no switching to other planets, blah blah), Irulan playing a big role is just great and the ending felt appropriate, unlike the dumb 'concubines are wives' abrupt ending of 'Dune'. Indeed, in some ways 'Dune Messiah' is a proper ending for the story of Paul/Muad'Dib, and it breaks the rules of the usual Messiah/hero stereotype by presenting a hero tormented by his own powers and seemingly helpless to prevent a terrible future he keeps seeing. Also, as a Muslim, I can't help but feel Herbert captured a "what-if" scenario of how the Prophet Muhammad would have felt if he lived long enough to see the jihad waged in his name, the squabbles and backstabbing (Sunnis after all killed the Prophet's relatives, who were alligned with the Shiites and were given semi-divine status) and the horrible killings. And at the end of the day, it's bloody entertaining.

    And sadly, all this makes 'Children of Dune' (CoD) rather inferior by comparison. It's still enjoyable, largely thanks to the return of Jessica and Gurney (their absence would probably be one of my few criticisms of 'Dune Messiah'). And of course, Alia the Abomination, she really saved this novel. Her death was awesome, simple and elegant yet still emotional. And again, one could see traces of Muslim history in the story (too long for me to explain this aprt, perhaps a separate post for it, heh heh). That said, I'm not a fan of the know-it-all twins, and already one detects Herbert's lapse into mumbo-jumbo religous overload that would infect the later Dune books. So, CoD is OK, but inferior to the first two.

    Don't like the rest of the books, not a fan of the prequels. Love the CoD miniseries but sadly the first book has yet to rceive a worthy adaptaion, alas!

    *shrug* My two cents.

    :D
  8. GrandAlmightyMaster Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2003
    star 2
    After finishing Dune and being half way through Messiah I relized I still don't know Paul's motivation for the whole jihad. Is it soley to gain power or am I totally missing a huge point?:confused:
  9. Cliodna_ben_Lhee Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 4, 2003
    star 4
    GAM, It has been awhile since I read them, but I don?t think power was Paul?s motivation. He had an ultimate destiny to fulfill, that had more to do with bringing life (and by life I am not just talking about people and animals but of growing and living nature) back to the Planet of Arrakis. But more than that there is an ultimate motive of saving humanity via The Golden Path. If I tell you more than that, then I would give away much of what happens in Children of Dune and also my favorite book of the series (the 4th), God Emperor of Dune.

    unfortunately, I could not get very far into Heretics of Dune, I will go back and read it again someday when I have more free time, it is much to complex to rush through.
  10. Lurking_Around Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2002
    star 6

    POTENTIAL SPOILERS AHEAD

    (might not be any major spoilers, but I feel it's fair to put a warning)


    If I remembered correctly, way back in the first book, Paul already had visions of two choices he has to make, two paths in the future. In one path, he seems to be surrendering to the Baron Harkonnen ("Hello, Grandfather") and he rejected this path. Sadly, the only other alternative future is the path of Jihad, unleashing the Fremen on the Universe. Innitially, we see in 'Dune' that Paul tried to avoid this future as well, but after the victory against the Saudakar, he finally realised there was no other way (Reverend Mother Mohiam realized this when she screamed "You cannot loose these people upon the universe!").

    As I said, in 'Dune Messiah' Paul is presented as hopeless against his terrible visions of the future. The Fremen feel it is their religous duty to wage holy war in the name of their Mahdi, and Paul cannot deny them this while at the same time still claiming to be this Mahdi. Ultimately, some Fremen take this to the extremes, hence we have the conspiracy by Korba who wants to make Muad'Dib a matyr, to blame Chani (and her children) for it and to use this as as some sort of reason for more jihad. Korba's faction is just one of the many who united against the Imperial government, each with their own reasons, but what all have in common is to get rid of the Emperor and his sister, Saint Alia of the Knife.

    Again I say that this is all fascinating for a Muslim like me because of the "what if" scenario of what the Prophet would have felt at all the jihad waged after his death (would he have wanted expansion into Europe is an area for speculation. Thankfully for Christendom, Charles Martel stopped the Jihad from going further than Spain). And the various Fremen factions would parallel the Sunni/Shiite split in early Islamic history, a theme continued on in 'Children of Dune'.

    That's the way I see it, I suppose others might have different interpretations.
  11. Penguinator RPF Modinator and Batmanager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    May 23, 2005
    star 6
    I've read the original book nigh on 4 times.

    I read all the prequels, but found them to be lacking in comparison.

    I'm now reading Children of Dune, and recently finished Dune Messiah.

    Best. Books. Ever.
  12. Sniper_Wolf Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2002
    star 4
    I must say Leto II did have a thing about losing his penis.
  13. mrsvos Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 2005
    star 5
    I've read and collected the Frank Herbert books.
    I REALLY enjoyed the trilogy Brian Herbert and Anderson did,
    The Butlerian Jihad, the Machine Crusade and the Battle of Corrin.
    those robots really creeped my out.
    I have several co-workers who are Dune fans and really enjoyed this trilogy above those 'House of' books
    anyone who was put off by those
    'House of' books should go for these - they were excellent!
  14. NYCitygurl NSWFF Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2002
    star 9
    This was a book chosen for my book club, but I only got 85 pages in before I stopped. I was urged to try it again my a friend who loves it, but it's really hard to get through.
  15. GrandAlmightyMaster Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2003
    star 2
    That seems to be a trend with dune. Keep reading, you won't regret it.
  16. JEDI-SOLO Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 12, 2002
    star 5
    I love Children of Dune. That is what motivated me to read this seires is when the Mini series was coming on Sci-Fi. I remember hearing talk of making tv series based off of the mini if it did well in ratings.

    I guess it didn't since that was 3yrs ago and still no TV show.
  17. JediTrilobite Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 17, 1999
    star 7
    I loved the SciFi miniseries, as well as the soundtrack for it. Really good stuff.
  18. JEDI-SOLO Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 12, 2002
    star 5
    Alot of people I know really REALLY hate the "music video" in part 1.

    But personally that is my favorite part of all the series.
  19. JediTrilobite Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 17, 1999
    star 7
    Music video? Inama Nushif ? I loved that part
  20. Lobot_Omy Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 2001
    star 6
    Just finished reading Chapterhouse. I'm still not sure what the Golden Path is, although I've read God Emperor of Dune a long time ago. Also Odrade tells Murbella "Muad'Dib to Tyrant to Honored Matres to us to Sheeana .. to what? ..." I don't really understand this progression. What exactly does Sheeana intend? The Face Dancers at the end confused me, as well. Interesting book though.
  21. FatBurt Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 21, 2003
    star 5
    There was meant to be a final book after Chapter house which was to truely tie everything in.


    From Paul, Duncan (why do you think they kept getting Ghola's from him?) right down to the Honoured Matres.



    However Frank Passed on before he could complete it and all that there really is are the notes that Christopher has.


    He's "threatened" to complete the story after the notes have been fully documented and studied.
  22. VadersLaMent Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 3, 2002
    star 9
    Like many people the first time I tried to read Dune I stopped before the first 50 pages or so. Years later, about 5 I think, I forced myself to read it and I'm glad I did. I have not read any of the other Dune books but I did go through many of the Wiki entries just to get a better grasp of the Dune universe.
  23. sidious618 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 20, 2003
    star 6
    I really need to get this book.
  24. Golden_Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 10, 2005
    star 4
    I think that the first time I read Dune, I didn't undestand a thing. But was fascinated nevertheless.
  25. Amon_Amarth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2005
    star 6
    Books are simply amazing, though Children of the Dune is a bit confusing.
    I have to re-read them again...
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.