Satanic imagery/references in ROTS

Yes, Finally someone else sees this and posts it. I thought about all of these things. Ian also said his character was the devil incarnate. But allow me to go out on an even bigger limb:
OK, let's say the force is God (Christian viewpoint here guys) and Anakin would be Jesus cuz he was made from the Force. Jesus is killed (I know Anakin really isn't killed, but go with me, Anakin dies when he becomes Vader) The beast is empowered by the Dark Side (the devil, the thing that is the opposite of God) he takes control of the galaxy (the world leader) and rules for a really long time and bad things happen. Then Christ returns and destroys the Beast. (Palps thrown to doom in reactor core). OK that is a little stretched, but can anyone else see this?

 

yeah i can see where your going, and its a pretty good conclusion

 

know that Christ rose on the third day from death. While somebody's in hell, they have to obey Satan, right? i think that GL thought that three days was too short for a Sith Lord, so he makes it 30 years. We still got that 3 thing going on. And Anakin would have to be Jesus because he was the only man powerful enough to overcome evil and banish the devil from his presence forever (remember that story of jesus fasting in the desert?). so, he is the savior, died for 3 days (30 years), was born of god (the force), and was crucified for his status (look in the teaser, and you'll see that vader is in a somewhat cross-like position, and the only difference is that his arms are bent).

Man, GL just NAILED this.

 

What does Satan do if the person doesn't listen to them? Kill them more?

And what 30 years are you talking about?

 

well your correct about the rest he wasnt ever in actual hell. and satan isnt in hell. because i dont think he wants to be a barbecque.

 

come on, three days is nowhere NEAR long enough for a sith lord to last until rotj, so he made it 30 years. there is just something about three...

 

well, he has to be there in order to make sure that the damned don't roam earth forever free. Kinda like the nasty-@$$ prison guard i met last week.

 

lol but God could stop the damned from leaving there if he put them there in the first place

 

R2-D2 is Moses?

 

drworm

Jedi are Jews (both start with ?J?)

The senate is Europe

(both do not start with 'S')

The Palpatine is Hitler

(both do not start with 'P')

And the Empire are the Germans ? (not everyone in the Empire was bad...they were just following the leader)

And the Sith are Nazis

Yes, you can draw parallels with WWII. You can also draw parallels with the Roman empire and with the British empire, heck almost any empire you want. GL has said this himself.

Your point here?

 

There are a MILLION different theories on why we can connect Star Wars to:

-World War II
-World War I
-American Civil War
-"insert religion here" theology
-current Presidential policy
-the Crusades

...so let's not get into a pissing match about different religions. Christians, you're not stupid, but you can't convince us Jews that you're right, and Jews, you can't convince Christians. We could sit here all day and come up with "proof texts" but if the other side doesn't care, what does it matter? Besides, if people are happy in their current religion, LEAVE THEM BE!!![/rant]

With that being said, let's get back to the topic on hand which would be specific Satanic imagery in ROTS.

 

Well as I explained to someone several years ago
The Dark side isn't about forcing anyone
to be anything,they allow themselves to be
subsumed by it.

More than anything else,I think,"Satanic"
imagery might be too loaded a phraseology,
it would perhaps be better stated as Evil maybe.

Though honestly I know of few people who think of
themselves as evil unless they are trying to get a
rise out of someone.

It starts with the best of intentions
and just sort of gets out of hand from there.

 

"Let us make man in OUR own image, in OUR likeness." Right there is evidence of the trinity, and its in your torah


Wow...first of all...your reading the ENGLISH translation. You want to know what it really says...read it in Hewbrew. Second...what the **** does that prove. He used the Royal we. Maybe...and I know I might be stoned saying this...but maybe when he said we...he was talking about others of his kind. Maybe G-d is one powerful of a race....like the Q.

Please don't kick me out my jewish brethren.

 

ZeH Ha EMeT

Dr. Worm somebody's a TMBG fan I see

 

Well...they call me Dr. Worm...

 

You guys are confusing, and a little annoying with your bickering.

You want the truth, truly seek Jesus. He is the personifaction of God. He is the Way, the TRUTH, and the Life.


I'm a Christian, and I believe that you can't force belief on anyone, so arguing won't help. People will choose what they want to beleive, right, wrong, upside-down, or even off the wall. Our job as people, is to obey and glorify GOD, and as Christians spread God's Word and let God do the rest in everyone's hearts. That's where it all happens, in your spirit. You must choose to believe in your heart, with sincerity.

But belief is not enough, even satan himself believes that Jesus is real. He knows that Jesus is the Son of God. But satan went astray, and will never be able to come back. We must follow Jesus, in thought and in action. We grow closer to God by spending time with him, and studying the Word of God (the Bible).

I believe that Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and God the Father are one and the same God, defined by three distinct personalities. I also believe that this unable to be explained in any earthly terms, so I sugest you don't try. You'll only confuse yourself.

I believe that the Bible is the Holy, and INSPIRED word of God. That every word that appears in the Bible was guided by God to be written in the Bible. I believe that it is perfect. God wrote it through man, therefore perfect. After 2,000 years it has yet to be proven wrong. If you have a problem with it, take it up with God, and research! Find the original languages and usages. Research the times, and find out what phrases were used for what!


Now, about the movie, I think that that cross thing is purely coincidential. Where does the number 6 appear in the movie? And I think that dear George may have gotten inspired by numerous stories and beliefs, and the movie itself is in no way an allagory of any story, in any way shape or form. There is no "imagery/reference" to satan here. Mabey close to pure evil, but only in the Star Wars Universe sort of way.

 

Thank you for your personal beliefs...I'm...convinced?


But yes, after seeing the trailer again yesterday in the movie theater, I didn't really think it looked to much like a cross. Much more of just two perpendicular lines, or at least that's how it looks to me now.

 

everytime I hear theories like this I can't help but laugh. Everyone is just reading way too far into this. you could put that thinking into nearly movie.

 

In thinking of things to add, I came across some interesting things in the ROTS Novelization that you also may find worthy of note.

In the Bible, Jesus (Anakin, in this case) is tempted 3 times by Satan (Palpatine/Sidious) in an effort to turn him to darkness. The same can be seen in ROTS, from a certain point of view. In flipping through my novel, I noted 3 times that Palpatine attempted to lower Anakin's faith in the Jedi and his belief in their principles.

The first (if you have the novel, on page 222-227) is when Palpatine confronts Anakin about the Jedi spying on his activity, saying things like "They [Jedi] don't even allow themselves to love" and "They [The Sith] embrace the whole spectrum of experience, from the heights of transcendent joy to the depths of hatred and despair." Palpatine also tells Anakin of the great power of Darth Plagueis and his ability to "cheat death".

The second and most relevant instance of this temptation occurs on page 278-279 of the novelization. In the Bible, Satan offers Jesus all of the riches and kingdoms of the world in exchange for Jesus' servitude to evil. In ROTS, the following is spoken between Palpatine and Anakin:

"I am offering you...anything"
.......
Anakin looked out the window, looking for the most ridiculously expensive thing he could spot. "How about one of those new SoroSuub custom speeders--"
"Done."
"Are you serious? You know how much one of those costs? You could practically outfit a battle cruiser--"
"Would you prefer a battle cruiser?"

To summarize, Anakin also requests the Senatorial Apartment complex as well as the whole system of Corellia. All of this is granted to him by Palpatine.

The third and final example (pages 334, 335) can be seen where Mace Windu is having his showdown with Lord Sidious, and is about to kill him. Anakin rushes into the Chancellor's office and sees the battle between Windu and Sidious. Sidious immediately requests Anakin's help, telling him to destroy the "Jedi traitor" and the "murderer" found in the character of Mace Windu. Sidious tells Anakin of his destiny to rule the galaxy side-by-side with the new Emperor. The temptation finally wins over and Anakin chops off Windu's hand, allowing Palpatine to finish him off with some lightning.

To briefly summarize, these instances of temptation can certainly parallel those found in the Bible when Satan tempts Jesus in the mountains.

 

I wasn't going to go off topic anymore as per the mods' request but someone else did again so I feel the need to answer and I hope I don't get banned for it (of course the co-owner of the site had been in on this debate too so we'll see...):

"Let us make man in OUR own image, in OUR likeness." Right there is evidence of the trinity, and its in your torah


Wow...first of all...your reading the ENGLISH translation. You want to know what it really says...read it in Hewbrew. Second...what the **** does that prove. He used the Royal we. Maybe...and I know I might be stoned saying this...but maybe when he said we...he was talking about others of his kind. Maybe G-d is one powerful of a race....like the Q.

Please don't kick me out my jewish brethren.

Without pointing out the obvious, that the Hebrew says the exact same thing (I have studied Biblical Hebrew for a few years, though I'm not fluent by any means) I just wanted to ask you this, DrWorm: What is it that you fear so much about Christianity that you would abandon the most basic tenet of Judaism, the very heart of the Shema (even theoretically) to try and argue away the plural aspect of God in the Hebrew Bible? Never mind that the word elohim is a plural term anyway (although used with singular verbs when referring to God Almighty). What gets me is that you would sacrifice the uniqueness of God just to win an argument against a Christian.

It is clear to me that, for you, Judaism has everything to do with culture and nothing to do with truth or reality. You don't want to be labled a "Gentile," so you don't believe in Yeshua/Jesus (the one who was killed with a placard over his head reading his crime to be that he was "King of the Jews" by the way).

It seems as though your definition of Judaism is as simple as A-B-C: "Anything But Christianity." I understand that you don't want to lose your culture. Who would? But this is too important a thing to be merely theoretical about. Rather than asking, "Who am I?," why not instead ask, "What is true?" I think in the end you'll arrive at a better answer, or at least, you'll be more honest to yourself and others in the way you find and defend your answers.

 

>>Let us make man in OUR own image, in OUR likeness<<

It is possible that God has a wife and decided to have children. It sounds far-fetched, but one must consider that the role of the woman has been suppressed in the Holy Book.

A different take is that God had created Spirits first like Jesus, and was talking to them. I'm not a bible scholar, but I believe it was somewhere hinted like "At the beginning there was Word, and the Word was with God." sorry I don't remember where the passage is.


>>I would be interested to know which prochecies Jesus didn't fulfill from the OT<<

I can't point out where it stands in the OT. But

He should rebuiled the third temple
He should bring world peace

What they were actually hoping for, back then, was a warrior who would free them from rome. Messiahs could also be Kings or Priests.

Now back to the topic : Lucas making any satanic references RoTS!? Hope not. When watching Star Wars I never thought about this, even reading 66 and I think some of you are seeing to much in it. Order 66? Sounds better than Order 88 now don't it!

 

A different take is that God had created Spirits first like Jesus, and was talking to them. I'm not a bible scholar, but I believe it was somewhere hinted like "At the beginning there was Word, and the Word was with God." sorry I don't remember where the passage is.
The passage is John 1:1 in the New Testament and if you'll read the chapter, you'll see that it is an argument for the fact that Jesus is God and came in human flesh.

As far as the prophecies, it is clear that Jesus was not what was expected but the Bible also makes clear that He fulfilled the actual prophecies, not the expectations. Different things. Moreover, some prophecies are still unfulfilled and await His return.

Isaiah 52-53 details a prophecy that Jesus fulfilled that is not at all what the Jews were expecting. Closely tied to this is Psalm 22, which Jesus quoted on the cross.

 

You'd be hard pressed to find any rabbi that will agree with you in saying that...if you think people have a base of faith simply because YOU want to convert people, well...that's a little seedy to me.

On to Isaiah 53. First of all, you fail to cite it in context. Back up to chapter 42 and you will realize that it is clearly about the NATION of Israel not a messiah. In fact, no where in this text is the messiah referenced, even with nicknames such as, "the king, the branch of Jesse, or as David himself." If you read these chapters in context, you would realize it has nothing to do with someone suffering on a cross, but about a nation that is suffering, ie very real life consequences. Secondly, you more likely than not have a false translation. You are probably reading the more popular versions derived from KJV, which renders this passage into present tense. However, it is in past tense if you read the Hebrew version, which clearly rules out this being about the Messiah.

Now, you claim that Jesus fulfilled ALL prophesies. He was a good man, that is more than certain, but when was he married with children? When did he unite the world under peace? Is every person worshiping G-d? He didn't do any of these things, which were all prophesies for THE Messiah.

That all being said, I again ask that people stop trying to convert others to religions. I hope I don't have to defend either faith again because of just senseless rhetoric (and yes, I am willing to defend Christianity because I don't hate any of you...and really, you have a nice religion).