Satanic imagery/references in ROTS

As a Christian, I don't follow a "religion."
I follow Jesus Christ. I have a Relationship with him.


There are many religions but only one God, one Savior, and one Way to Heaven.

 

That's exactly how I am, Darth_Beaver.


My opinion is that GL incorporates a little bit of everything in his movies. I see a lot of Greek mythology, Christian symbolism, Buddhist symbolism (Padme means lotus in Sanskrit, and the name is also part of a chant), and literary symbolism.

For example, I think a lot of ROTS is dervived from Faust. Hayden Christensen said in a recent interview that Anakin is a lot like Faust -- he makes a deal with the devil out of his love for a woman.

I also see a lot of history in SW.

Thus, IMO, SW is a combo of everything.



And guys, let's keep the peace on the boards.

 

Good Faust reference, but in the play he makes a deal to gain all of the knowledge in the world.

 

Nona Cad,

Thanks for your well thought-out response. I am glad that you are versed in Isaiah. I also would commend Judaism as a faith of the Book, that given to the chosen people of God. However, I cannot speak as though getting along is better or more important than truth. To do so would dishonor Him who reigns on high for He is truth. That said, there are a few things I'd like to say:

As far as my translation of the Scripture, it is neither KJV nor based on the KJV. Nor is it based on the same texts as the KJV exactly, although it has some in common. There has been a lot of work in biblical scholarship over the last century and many of the more modern translations (mine is the New American Standard, a very literal, almost wooden rendering) utilize older texts and traditions that have been discovered (such as the Dead Sea Scrolls) and take into account older fragmentary texts as well as the Greek Septuagint, the Babylonian Talmud, the Samaritan Pentateuch and many others. I also can translate Hebrew a bit myself and own a copy of the Masoretic Text (although I have a long way to go in this area).

As for the Servant of Isaiah 53, you are right to say that chapter 42 refers to him but that is not all Isaiah has to say about him. In chapter 49, a little bit closer contextually, he is mentioned as well. Verse 5 says of him, his purpose from the womb is : "To bring Jacob back to Him, so that Israel might be gathered to Him." Verse 6 says he is: "To raise up the tribes of Jacob and to restore the preserved ones of Israel." I have heard the contention that the servant is Israel but do please note that in this passage, he is leading Israel back to God. That seems to indicate he is not to be identified with the nation itself.

Moreover, the connection of a man to a nation in chapter 53 is a difficult one at best. If it is past tense to Isaiah (who was living when both the kingdoms of Israel and Judah still stood) it is hard to understand what is meant by the servant having "poured out himself to death," for example. As for why the phrases are in past tense (and yes, they are in my translation as well) there are many prophecies in the Bible written in past tense that refer to future events. This should not be surprising since, when God has said something will be it is as good as done. There are other examples that are similar in the passage but I have to go so I'll just move on.

In chapter 42, which you mentioned, verse 8 says of God, "I will not give My glory to another, nor My praise to graven images," yet in chapter 52, verse 13, God says of the servant, "He will be high and lifted up and greatly exalted." That phrase "high and lifted up" appears elsewhere in Isaiah, in chapter 6, verse 1 to describe God Himself as witnessed by the prophet. God has said he would not give His glory or praise to another, yet here it is on the servant.

I would also point out that I didn't say Jesus fulfilled "all" the prophecies. I allowed that some are yet to be fulfilled. On the note of the marrying and having children, I would very much like to know the reference(s) for that particular one because it's not leaping out at me.

Thanks again for being thoughtful. I'm glad you're knowledgeable of the Scripture and God is honored by that. Till later, MTFBWY!

 

A story inspired by myth is similar to other myths????

*slaps head*

Wow! what a coincidence!


(for the record: "lucifer as a fallen angel" is the fictional work of poet J. Milton.)

 

Why dredge up this jesus-freak thread?

 

Yeah. Good point. Sorry. I thought it was pretty entertaining, though.

for example this line: "As a Christian, I don't follow a "religion." "

 

Yeah, it provides amusement, but it also eggs the god-squad on

 

RE: 'religion?' The Force is termed a religion in ANH, is it not? GL condenses and distills principles from many major world religions into 'the Force, the light side and the dark side.' So if it is OK for the Jedi and the Sith to follow their respective religions, why is one a freak for following one in real life? 'Tis our path, our light that guide us, a 'force' in our lives.

Now, back on topic . . . . Satan! according to THIS SITE :

The word satan in Hebrew (the language of the Old Testament), is generally accepted to mean 'to obstruct' but it also has in it the idea of an opponent or an adversary (i.e. one who challenges). Thus the satan originally meant one who 'obstructs' or 'challenges'

 

Who said the Jedi and Sith weren't freaks?

 

I thought it seemed fairly obvious that "Order 66" was a reference to 666, and Lucas has repeatedly referred to the lava planet as being like Hell. The only problem is that, if Lucas is tapping into Christian imagery by associating the evil of the SW Universe (which we are encouraged to view as universal evil) with the evil of Christianity, by calling the lava planet "Mustafar" he is associating the evil of the SW Universe with the goodness of Islam... indeed, associating Islam with Satanism.

I personally consider this far more racist than anything Lucas has been accused of so far (Jar Jar, for example) - ironically, some people (perhaps they had satiric intent?) even claimed that the character of Jango Fett was intended as a stereotype of an Arab as a terrorist. He is not a terrorist, and I doubt Temeura Morrison was cast because he looked vaguely Arabic... and yet very few people seem to have noticed the inappropriateness of applying the name "Mustafar" to a Hell-like or Satanic place.

 

Maybe because no one even knows what Mustafar means. Would you care to tell us?

 

Um... no, I would hardly say that "no one" knows what Mustafar means. It's often been mentioned on these boards that the name Mustafar is almost identical to the name Mustafa, which is another name for Mohammed, being an Arabic word often tranlated as... "The Chosen One"!

 

Are you serious? Wow, Mustafa-r. He's obviously saying that Islam is evil (sarcasm).

 

Why the sarcasm? Mustafa is well known as a common Islamic name, and since it derives from a different alphabet, Mustafar can be seen as an alternative spelling. I would have thought it was impossible *not* to think of Islam upon hearing the name "Mustafar."

 

Mustafar can be seen as an alternative spelling of Mustafa? That's stretching it, IMO. I think the sound of the name is far more important than the way it is spelled. Listen to how it's pronounced. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I believe that Mustafa is pronounced Mustafa, while Mustafar is pronounced Mustafar, or Mustafar.
To me, it's obvious that Lucas made up the name Mustafar because it sounds cool. I would be very surprised if it turned out that he thought about the name Mustafa when he named that planet.
I never made the connection until I read these posts.



Mustafar is fiery
/LM

 

I guess the connection isn't as obvious as I thought, but it's still a far cry from "We had to change one of Greedo's words because it turned out to be Spanish slang" as mentioned in The Annotated Screenplays.

As it turns out, Mustafar was originally going to be called Mufasta, but this was changed (probably because it sounded too much like Mufassa, another well-known character with James Earl Jones' voice) and the name was changed slightly. The similarity is very hard to deny though, especially since "-a" and "-ar" sound near-identical in many accents.

 

Where'd you hear it was originally going to be called Mustafa? It's a common name, as you said. I suppose Alderaan was originally going to be called Alan?

 

Mufasta, not Mustafa. And I read it in The Art Of Star Wars Episode III: Revenge Of The Sith.

 

I see. But, I still think it's a stretch to try to make a connection with this.