Satanism

Greetings,

Interesting Post. I would like to give my opinion here.
Which is this...

Any and all deities...from any religion, are man made.
Satan is an example. Simply, the personification of evil. Worship what you will.

I do not belittle anyone for their religious beliefs....provided that they follow a good, moral code of conduct and attempt to better themselves as people.

Be Well.

 

It's sad to see so many who don't believe in God. I can't make you change your beliefs, but I can ask that if you do find reason to believe in God then please don't ignore and deny it. I pray God shows you the way.

 

Any and all deities...from any religion, are man made.

My answer to that is, no, you're wrong. Since you gave no examples to support your claim, nor shall I.

I find your posts ironic, Damien666.

M. Scott

 

It's sad to see so many who don't believe in God.

You shouldn't be sad. Most non-believers are perfectly happy with their beliefs. As a matter of fact, many Atheists and Secular Humanists feel sorry for religious people who invest their entire lives waiting for eternal reward in 'the next life', when they feel most of them should be focusing on making more of the present life.

Also, I never really thought of it until now, but to be a Satanist, by default don't you have to also believe in God? If someone believes in God, why then would one choose to follow Satan instead of God? Is true Satanism a form of religious protest?

 

It's sad to see so many who don't believe in God.

I agree.

 

It's sad to see so many who don't believe in God.

I think it's sad that people still believe in fairytales and stories that have no basis in reality. But whatever.

 

You shouldn't be sad. Most non-believers are perfectly happy with their beliefs.

"Most"? Hmmm... Doesn't look that way to me. Most people appear to be struggling with depression, drugs, alcohol, etc. Those who are not like to put up a front that everything's fine and dandy, but inside feel emptiness and discontent; they try to fill this up, sometimes with the aforementioned things, other times with hobbies and/or relationships, but they never can quite accomplish it. Which is sad enough for those of us who are filled, however, when you add to that their fate after life on earth, it makes it nearly devistating to think about.

As a matter of fact, many Atheists and Secular Humanists feel sorry for religious people who invest their entire lives waiting for eternal reward in 'the next life', when they feel most of them should be focusing on making more of the present life.

Why? What is there of the present life worth focusing on, besides relationships? Everything is temporary. To indulge in it all hoping to fulfill that ever-present need to be "filled up" is futile, since after it's over, you're right back where you started, many times worse off. And when it's all said and done, you don't even get to stay alive. You die and are soon forgotten by the living.

Anyway, for those of us waiting for "eternal reward", we don't miss out. Those who are slaves to the flesh cannot comprehend it, but to deny sin, to deny human nature, and instead follow the Spirit, is to embrace freedom, and true joy. Peace. Hope. Love. Life. It's not like Christians, once saved, lock themselves up in their homes and wait for Jesus to come back. We still live life, we still have fun and fellowship with other believers. We just try to avoid sin in the process. And that's where the filling up truly begins.

Also, I never really thought of it until now, but to be a Satanist, by default don't you have to also believe in God? If someone believes in God, why then would one choose to follow Satan instead of God? Is true Satanism a form of religious protest?

You're referring to devil worshipers, I assume and not the religion this thread is about. In those cases, the reason they do that is because Satan has such a hold over them that they don't care if they're serving the doomed enemy of God. They are truly depraved.

 

Most non-believers appear to be struggling with depression, drugs, alcohol, etc.

That is simply not true. I can easily point fingers and say I have known many faithful church-goers who are alcoholics, drug-abusers, and suicidal as well. Let's not conflate atheism with substance abuse or emotional problems because that's simply a false correlation.

Religious beliefs have very little to do with most social problems. If they did, places with more church-goers would have fewer incidences of alcoholism, drugs, violence, and crime; and the only places you would find atheists would be prisons and the psychiatric wards of hospitals.

To indulge in it all hoping to fulfill that ever-present need to be "filled up" is futile, since after it's over, you're right back where you started, many times worse off. And when it's all said and done, you don't even get to stay alive. You die and are soon forgotten by the living.

I think you missed my point entirely. I wasn't referring to "filling up" on our primal human desires or any such thing. I just wanted to point out that one doesn't necessarily need to believe in God to have a fulfilling life. I know several atheists who volunteer many hours a week to children's hospitals and the food bank and are rewarded with good feelings, because they believe we have one shot at life, and everyone deserves to have a pleasant time with it, including children undergoing chemotherapy and the hungry. They belive death is final and they are comfortable with that. They say death is probably no different than falling asleep at night, but who really knows? Anyways, the point of that diatribe is that you don't have to believe in God to be a good person.

Also, regarding my statement about Satanists, I was just asking a simple question: Do Satanists believe in God, or do they just believe in Satan? I say this because an atheist cannot believe Satan
any more than he/she can believe in God.

 

You're referring to devil worshipers, I assume and not the religion this thread is about. In those cases, the reason they do that is because Satan has such a hold over them that they don't care if they're serving the doomed enemy of God. They are truly depraved.

Oh c'mon Fireman, leave your preaching at church. There is no such thing as a true satanist. Think about it for a second, in order to be a satanist like the Christian Church believes you'd have to accept everything the bible says but yet instead of worshipping God they worship the Devil. Why would someone believe everything in the bible only to follow the inferior character in the story, especially considering very little is explained about the devil.

I doubt any proclaimed "devil worshippers" know ANYTHING about the bible. Ask any satanist what they believe in and they'd be hardpressed to tell you, "devil worshipping" is an immature rebellious fantasy and has no basis as a real religion or idealogy that people follow.

The problem is that Christians throughout history have confused other religions with the act of satanism or devil worshipping. There has never been a confirmed case of any organized satanism, EVER. It's all been some scare tactic made up by Christians since the 1500s and proceeds til this day.

Even the Church of Satan which is considered by many christians to be "devil worshipping" doesn't actually believe in the christian devil or the christian God or any circumstances in the bible.

Everyone should check out religioustolerance.org and search for satanism for some great OBJECTIVE information on the subject.

 

"Most"? Hmmm... Doesn't look that way to me. Most people appear to be struggling with depression, drugs, alcohol, etc.

We do, huh?

 

That is simply not true. I can easily point fingers and say I have known many faithful church-goers who are alcoholics, drug-abusers, and suicidal as well. Let's not conflate atheism with substance abuse or emotional problems because that's simply a false correlation.

I didn't mean atheists specifically, just non-believers in general. Basically, the world.

Religious beliefs have very little to do with most social problems. If they did, places with more church-goers would have fewer incidences of alcoholism, drugs, violence, and crime; and the only places you would find atheists would be prisons and the psychiatric wards of hospitals.

Two things to note:

1. Many claim to be Christians who are not followers of Christ. They're lying to everyone, including themselves. There are plenty of these types in church.

2. Christians are still in their flesh, which is in a fallen state. Thus, there is a constant battle taking place over leadership of the Christian's soul between the Spirit and the flesh. We often times give into the flesh, leading to sin.

I think you missed my point entirely. I wasn't referring to "filling up" on our primal human desires or any such thing. I just wanted to point out that one doesn't necessarily need to believe in God to have a fulfilling life.

I didn't miss your point, actually. I probably didn't communicate it well enough, but I was referring to a fulfilling life as well.

I know several atheists who volunteer many hours a week to children's hospitals and the food bank and are rewarded with good feelings, because they believe we have one shot at life, and everyone deserves to have a pleasant time with it, including children undergoing chemotherapy and the hungry. They belive death is final and they are comfortable with that. They say death is probably no different than falling asleep at night, but who really knows? Anyways, the point of that diatribe is that you don't have to believe in God to be a good person.

Of course not. At least, not by our standards. However, what matters more: our actions, or our motives?

Also, regarding my statement about Satanists, I was just asking a simple question: Do Satanists believe in God, or do they just believe in Satan? I say this because an atheist cannot believe Satan
any more than he/she can believe in God.

Right, members of the religion don't believe in Satan, they just like the idea of his character in the Bible and what he stood for. They don't believe in him or God. Satan worshipers believe in both, and choose Satan.

 

To quote P&T from last night, "Elvis didn't do no drugs."

 

Thanks, The_Fireman I'm glad we got that misunderstanding cleared up. However, I do have a question about this statement you made:

what matters more: our actions, or our motives?

I don't necessarily believe this, but I've heard non-believers say that they think Christians are the greediest people in the world because they only do good deeds so they can enjoy eternal bliss after they die! You have to admit, it actually does sound greedy put that way. If it were the case, I think the actions are more important than the motive.

I don't mean to de-rail the thread, because we should be discussing Satanism, but I thought it was an interesting question you asked!

 

I don't necessarily believe this, but I've heard non-believers say that they think Christians are the greediest people in the world because they only do good deeds so they can enjoy eternal bliss after they die! You have to admit, it actually does sound greedy put that way. If it were the case, I think the actions are more important than the motive.

No doubt that some do things for this reason, however, in my case, and in MANY cases that I know of, people do it simply because they love God. I have absolutely NO idea what heaven will be like in terms of rewards; all I know is that I love God and am thankful for what He's done for me and given me up to THIS point. For that, I serve Him, and others.

I don't mean to de-rail the thread, because we should be discussing Satanism, but I thought it was an interesting question you asked!

Understood, I often make interesting comments.

 

Satan has gotten a bad rap. He was used to being at The Man's side; then he gets demoted while The Man promotes His Son; he raises a little racket over nepotism and for his trouble gets transferred downtown with a few like minded friends for pro union activities.

 

I do not wish to get off topic BUT...

"Any and all deities...from any religion, are man made.

My answer to that is, no, you're wrong. Since you gave no examples to support your claim, nor shall I."

There is no proof of the existance of ANY deity that has EVER been mentioned in ANY religion. Let us use Satan as an example. No one can provide proof of "his" existence. Except for that which is passed down in fable and folklore. Now ask me to prove that "he" does NOT exist and I will ask you to prove that their is NOT a fire breathing dragon in my garage.

I think you will find most Satan worshippers to be younger people looking for an alternative to Christianity.

 

Now ask me to prove that "he" does NOT exist and I will ask you to prove that their is NOT a fire breathing dragon in my garage.

Actually, have you been in your garage recently?

Be afraid. Be very afraid.

 

As I'm reading these posts I find that people have a great misunderstanding of Satanism and Satanists themselves. Most satanists do not worship the devil in the biblical sense, or anyone for that matter. If you actually look into it, Satanism is a philosophy that emphasizes the individual, and promotes selfishness.

http://www.satanism101.com/

 

I've never met one "satanist" that wasn't obviously doing it for the purposes of rebellion, considering there is no true religion of satanism. Satanism wasn't invented by satanists after all, it was invented by the Church around the same time of all the witch burnings in the 1500s.

A lot of times paganism is viewed as satanism, but they're actually two entirely different things. Paganism is a term given by the christian church about mostly polytheistic religions or pretty much any religion that's not buddhist, jew, christian, or muslim. So religions like Wicca get thrown into the Satanism mix, even though it has nothing to do with satanism.

Satanism does not really exist, at least not in the Christian sense.

THANK YOU! Someone who gets it. Bravo!

In spiritual matters, if it is not of God, it is of Satan, and whatever you CALL it, that's how it is.

Nope. Thats not "how it is"...thats how your particular religious doctrine wants you to believe "how it is". There are cultures and religions far older than the idea of your "god".

I'm not trying to to sway anyone from their religion of choice, here...but to have the notion that your religion is the "right" one is ridiculous.

I'd like to see you say that when you're burning in the eternal pit of fire. A pain that will never end.

You got proof of god's existence...then by all means...prove it.

Any and all deities...from any religion, are man made.
Satan is an example. Simply, the personification of evil. Worship what you will.

Yes!!! More wisdom!!!

It's sad to see so many who don't believe in God. I can't make you change your beliefs, but I can ask that if you do find reason to believe in God then please don't ignore and deny it. I pray God shows you the way.

A good christian does not try to shove their beliefs down everyone else's throats.

Also, I never really thought of it until now, but to be a Satanist, by default don't you have to also believe in God? If someone believes in God, why then would one choose to follow Satan instead of God? Is true Satanism a form of religious protest?

No. Do some research. Do not read "The Satanic bible"...unless you want a good laugh.

It's sad to see so many who don't believe in God.

I agree.

Its sad to see so many people who haven't grasped the concept of "Freedom of worship", yet.

"Most"? Hmmm... Doesn't look that way to me. Most people appear to be struggling with depression, drugs, alcohol, etc. Those who are not like to put up a front that everything's fine and dandy, but inside feel emptiness and discontent; they try to fill this up, sometimes with the aforementioned things, other times with hobbies and/or relationships, but they never can quite accomplish it. Which is sad enough for those of us who are filled, however, when you add to that their fate after life on earth, it makes it nearly devistating to think about.

Will the christians please stop acting like God sends them a monthly list of people going to hell?

That is simply not true. I can easily point fingers and say I have known many faithful church-goers who are alcoholics, drug-abusers, and suicidal as well. Let's not conflate atheism with substance abuse or emotional problems because that's simply a false correlation.

Not to mention the unfortunate recurring "Child abuse" that seems to be a lasting problem in the clergy.

As I'm reading these posts I find that people have a great misunderstanding of Satanism and Satanists themselves. Most satanists do not worship the devil in the biblical sense, or anyone for that matter. If you actually look into it, Satanism is a philosophy that emphasizes the individual, and promotes selfishness.

DING DING!!! WINNER!! Give the man his pink teddy bear!

 

A good christian does not try to shove their beliefs down everyone else's throats.

As you are clearly not a Christian, good or otherwise, I wonder how you can make the statement of what a good Christian does or does not do. Not really for you to dictate, you see?

As for it, shove their beliefs, no. They shouldn't. But if you came across a group of people who based their whole concept of mathematics off 2 + 2 = 5, would you not want to correct them FOR THEIR OWN GOOD?

Any Christian, likewise, who does good things to earn points in heaven is not acting as they should: "Let it be said that you are saved by your faith, and not by works, so that no man can boast."

As to why you'd believe in the Bible and choose the wrong side...who knows? I certainly don't get it, but Satan knows about everything that happened and still is on the side he's on.

M. Scott

 

As I'm reading these posts I find that people have a great misunderstanding of Satanism and Satanists themselves. Most satanists do not worship the devil in the biblical sense, or anyone for that matter. If you actually look into it, Satanism is a philosophy that emphasizes the individual, and promotes selfishness.

Exactly. Satanists, as they are called, do not worship anything. They simply deny reverence to the Judeo-Christian god...or any deity for that matter. They CERTAINLY don't sacrifice children on altars or any of that baloney. Christians make that stuff up.

 

I don't say that Satanists do those things, and I'm a Christian. So now you're making up lies about Christians, which undercuts your argument.

I understand that theirs is a religion of selfishness and denial of God, or even a god. I'm trying to say, from a Christian perspective, that is what Satan wants. They don't worship him directly, but from a Christian perspective, he's still the one they're following.

M. Scott

 

I don't say that Satanists do those things, and I'm a Christian. So now you're making up lies about Christians, which undercuts your argument.

Dorkman, you're right about one thing in a roundabout way...I should not have generalized Christians like that. But who IS making up the stereotypes about Satanists then?

I understand that theirs is a religion of selfishness and denial of God, or even a god. I'm trying to say, from a Christian perspective, that is what Satan wants. They don't worship him directly, but from a Christian perspective, he's still the one they're following.

That would require a belief in Satan, which is absurd IMHO. Also, I really like your signature. It's refreshing to see a Christian JCer who knows that Bush is an abomination and a threat to peace.

 

Dorkman, you're right about one thing in a roundabout way...I should not have generalized Christians like that.

Thank you.

But who IS making up the stereotypes about Satanists then?

I don't know. Probably some "Christians", maybe some Wiccans, maybe Muslims, maybe even some Satanists are spreading rumors to impress/frighten people. Heck, maybe there even ARE some Satanists who got it into their heads to ritualistically kill some cats -- if the religion is about do-what-you-feel, it's not extremely farfetched.

Wherever it came from, it's a generalization, but in any situation we should fight that by correcting the generalization, not pointing fingers and making more.

That would require a belief in Satan, which is absurd IMHO.

No, it would not. Whether someone knows of or believes in gravity or not, it is still there. Refusing to believe in something cannot make it not so. The denial stage of grieving attests to that.

Whether they believe in Satan or not, IF he does exist (as a Christian, I maintain he does, and not just as a concept), then their renunciation of God is exactly what he wants. Whether they bow to Satan, he doesn't really care, as long as they AREN'T bowing to God.

Satan's real aim is to get back at God. His acts of evil against mankind (God's favored of creation) are just means to that end.

M. Scott

 

As you are clearly not a Christian, good or otherwise

That was a flame. Better watch it.

As for it, shove their beliefs, no. They shouldn't. But if you came across a group of people who based their whole concept of mathematics off 2 + 2 = 5, would you not want to correct them FOR THEIR OWN GOOD?

This isn't about mathematics. Bad example. Not believeing in YOUR god is not the same as 2+2=5.

I understand that theirs is a religion of selfishness and denial of God, or even a god. I'm trying to say, from a Christian perspective, that is what Satan wants. They don't worship him directly, but from a Christian perspective, he's still the one they're following.

Not what Satan wants....what your religious doctrine wants you to believe.