Satanism

As you are clearly not a Christian, good or otherwise

That was a flame. Better watch it.

That was a statement of fact. Better read it.

You've made it extremely clear that you are not a Christian. You are neither a "good Christian" nor a "bad Christian" nor any other type of Christian in the grey area between. I stated that. That is not a flame because it is not untrue. Stop trying to start a fight.

This isn't about mathematics. Bad example. Not believeing in YOUR god is not the same as 2+2=5.

That all depends on who you ask, doesn't it?

Not what Satan wants....what your religious doctrine wants you to believe.

I believe what I have discovered to be true, not blindly what other people tell me, and I'll thank you not to imply that I do not think for myself. Whether you believe truth or not yourself is irrelevant.

An example of that last point: I have green eyes. You can choose to believe me, or you can believe that I have blue, brown, or no eyes at all. But what you believe does not change the fact that I have green eyes.

M. Scott

 

<< If you actually look into it, Satanism is a philosophy that emphasizes the individual, and promotes selfishness. >>

So, would the opposite of that be emphasizing care for everyone and to promote selfless acts? And could that be defined as a G-Dism? Getting closer, is all I can say


<< There is no proof of the existance of ANY deity that has EVER been mentioned in ANY religion. Let us use Satan as an example. No one can provide proof of "his" existence. >>

Thats what I was saying. Everyone says G-D has to do some sort of show to prove His existence but when is the last time ole Lucifer picked up a pitchfork and did a little jig for the people hmm? The point is G-D nor Lucifer would do such a thing. Humans may like to think they create deities in their own image but I hope they dont expect deities to do dances for them.

G-D

 

So many people in this thread saying there is no devil.

I then reasonably conclude each of those individuals have never encountered the demonic. So, based on their own unique total inexperience they have made their decision about what they know virtually nothing.


Okay.

It's been said there is no "proof." I disagree, but, allow me to ask what would constitute proof of spiritual entities? Ethereal piles of demon droppings?

Here's how it works, folks. Satan wins and needs do nothing while you deny his and God's existence. The demonic basically have you where they desire you.

Make any sense to anyone? Probably not.

While some satanist's are simply atheists believing in neither a literal Creator or devil, some are traditional ardent believers in a literal Devil. Get it straight. And some, some comfortably assure others of one thing while actually clandestinely believing another...good way to get others into the water while slowly heating it up. It takes nothing more than a quick search of the web to make this determination.



I have something the skeptics and scoffers do not have. Experience.

You've been told by someone who does actually know.

The demonic are real.

Now, people will believe the truth or...whatever comforts or is convenient for them.


I would venture to say there is a participant or two in this thread who deny the reality while secretly suspecting that not only are the fallen angels a true potentiality, but that there is demonic activity close to home, so to speak. Denial is not healthy.


The advice I offer for those who believe and those who espouse not to believe is to remember the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. It can save your life. It did mine.


To quote Ripley's, Believe it or not.

 

I didn't say some satanists are atheists I said MOST

 

Darth Brooks,

I realize that you and I have touched on this subject more than once in the last few years here. You always speak of your experience with the demonic however I cannot recall an example of this experience. I think this thread would be perfect to share any relative experience you have had with the demonic.

I had a friend many years ago who was VERY Christian. She also swore of experience with demons...actually seeing dark entities in church.

Whether they exist or not....I still believe it is a manifestation of the power of the human mind...more importantly the power of the collective human mind.

 

"I then reasonably conclude each of those individuals have never encountered the demonic. So, based on their own unique total inexperience they have made their decision about what they know virtually nothing."

I have not encountered the demonic because of the simple and most obvious of truth: He does not exist. The Demonic and Hell was created to scare people into believing something that I believe defies logic, reason and science.

"Here's how it works, folks. Satan wins and needs do nothing while you deny his and God's existence. The demonic basically have you where they desire you."

Sounds like your attempting to scare people into believing. If he existed obviously he has won, but who's fault would that be? God for giving little evidence to people that don't like to blindly follow on. He doesn't sound like the loving God you Christians depict if he forces you to believe in his existance when he can't be bothered himself. I will not throw my life away when it could most likely is all lies.

"The demonic are real."

That is not true. The Human mind can make things up and we can think it to be real. Unless you have ground-breaking evidence like demons rising from the ground killing at will in New York or something like that stop attempting to make your opinion fact.

"Now, people will believe the truth or...whatever comforts or is convenient for them."

I believe in truth rather than fiction and stories attempting to scare young people into submission. I do not need to believe in an afterlife because it is convenient to fill in something that is unexplainable unless you go through it yourself. I do not need to lie to myself.

"The advice I offer for those who believe and those who espouse not to believe is to remember the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. It can save your life. It did mine."

Evidence that he exists please.

 

I have not encountered the demonic because of the simple and most obvious of truth: He does not exist. The Demonic and Hell was created to scare people into believing something that I believe defies logic, reason and science.

I have encountered the demonic, and you cannot say I have not because you have not lived my life. Don't try to say I haven't -- to quote yourself, don't try to pass off your opinion as fact.

Sounds like your attempting to scare people into believing.

Believing is of no consequence. You can believe in the devil and still be in his thrall.

If he existed obviously he has won, but who's fault would that be? God for giving little evidence to people that don't like to blindly follow on.

No, each individual person for stubbornly blinding themselves instead of opening their eyes to the truth around them.

He doesn't sound like the loving God you Christians depict if he forces you to believe in his existance when he can't be bothered himself.

He doesn't force you to believe in anything. You've obviously got the same misconception most people have about Heaven and Hell.

Heaven is the presence of God. Hell is the absence. You are free to choose one or the other. The latter is a bad choice, and God wants you to know that, but you're still free to choose it.

I will not throw my life away when it could most likely is all lies.

Without God, throwing your life away is exactly what you're doing.

That is not true.

Yes it is. See? I can make unsubstantiated claims too.

Unless you have ground-breaking evidence like demons rising from the ground killing at will in New York or something like that stop attempting to make your opinion fact.

Unless you have groundbreaking empirical evidence that there is no spiritual world then you should stop attempting to do the same.

Just because you don't like or accept something doesn't make it not true. See the analogy of my eyes a few posts up.

I believe in truth rather than fiction and stories attempting to scare young people into submission. I do not need to believe in an afterlife because it is convenient to fill in something that is unexplainable unless you go through it yourself. I do not need to lie to myself.

No, you've got the Devil to do it for you.

Evidence that he exists please.

Spiritual matters are intensely personal. A relationship with Jesus Christ is like a friendship. I could tell you for hours about the good times I've had with my best friend, but if you don't want to accept that he exists, you can't be convinced. The same with Lord Jesus. I could tell you all about my personal reasons for believing, but if you don't want to believe, I'd be wasting both our time.

M. Scott

 

I don't need to believe in an Afterlife, because I accept death as an inevitability. And that allows me to make most of what I have here on earth. The way I see it, is that religious people have necrophobia, and have to believe they go somewhere after life.

 

"No, each individual person for stubbornly blinding themselves instead of opening their eyes to the truth around them."

What truth? All I see is blind faith. My eyes are open and I want to believe that there is some almighty creator out there, but unlike you I require some good old proof. Not dreams or vision that could be the mind playing up on me.

"Without God, throwing your life away is exactly what you're doing."

Surely that is a flame? Basically your telling me my life is worthless because I am not like you with your spiritual views.

"Unless you have groundbreaking empirical evidence that there is no spiritual world then you should stop attempting to do the same."

I asked first and since you cannot be bothered to answer my question which I knew all would avoid you obviously can prove nothing.

 

What truth? All I see is blind faith. My eyes are open and I want to believe that there is some almighty creator out there, but unlike you I require some good old proof.

Just as long as it ain't the Christian version, eh? In just about every post of yours you make it a point to diss Yahweh for "throwing people into Hell". Do you REALLY want to believe He exists? I don't think you do. And therefore, any evidence pointing to HIM you will completely disregard.

 

Actually, if he came down, I saw him with me own two eyes and he started to talk to me and I knew I wasn't insane then I'd start believing.

 

I would accept proof of god, non second-hand testimony, the inability to reproduce the proof in a lab, observable proof. The thing most christians don't get and probably never will is that testimonies about their experiences with god will never work. Their faith in god while respectable won't magically rub off on a person. You actually have to provide proof, observable and not easily replicated proof. So far no christian has done that and has only sung the praises of "look around you, god is everywhere," well if you don't believe in god then no he/she is not in everything. You might as well talk to a brick wall, I think you'd get more of a reaction out of it.

 

So what about medical miracles? People who could not be saved by science but made a full recovery nonetheless? And I mean the ones who have cancer one day and not the next. It does happen. So far that's been non-reproducible.

M. Scott

 

Yeah, that's a good one. Just the other day, someone from my church went in and they found several tumors on their lungs. They did a LOT of praying, and the next week when they went in there was nothing. Not a single thing could be found.

Of course it will be said that there was nothing there to begin with, the tests were just mistaken. Just more evidence that people won't believe what they don't want to believe....

 

So what about medical miracles? People who could not be saved by science but made a full recovery nonetheless? And I mean the ones who have cancer one day and not the next. It does happen. So far that's been non-reproducible.

Psychosomatic responses can do quite a job at 'healing' without ever doing so. See Placebo effect.

 

So what about medical miracles? People who could not be saved by science but made a full recovery nonetheless? And I mean the ones who have cancer one day and not the next. It does happen. So far that's been non-reproducible.

Events that we cannot explain hardly prove the existance of God.

 

As The_Fireman said, people who don't want to accept the evidence never will.

I see posts all the time about "If God came down and spoke to me face to face, I'd believe."

No you wouldn't. I know you wouldn't. You'd think he was a crazy person. If he performed a miracle you'd find a way to explain it, or just say "That doesn't mean you're God."

That's why we have the saying "He who has ears to hear, let him hear."

M. Scott

 

So the theistic form of 'evidence' is that any evidence they would provide would be disbelieved? Somehow I really doubt that.

 

No, the theistic form of evidence is the same as any other form of evidence. But nothing can be proven unless the other person is willing to believe -- or at least, consider -- it.

If you didn't want to believe in me, I could chat with you on AIM, call you on the phone, show you pictures or meet you in person, and all you would have to do is say "You're not who you say you are" every time and there's nothing more I can do.

If I presented you with evidence of a murder that pointed to one person undeniably, if you did not want to consider it you could find all sorts of ways to argue how it might have been fabricated.

Evidence requires an open mind or it's just statements and objects laid before you.

M. Scott

 

I'm no juror, nor am I defense attorney. If I see evidence pointing in one direction I'll believe it until evidence to the contrary is brought up.

 

This is becoming a questioning/defense of Christianity thread, and we already have plenty of those, with the same circular arguments being presented there. Let's get back to discussing Satanism in its various forms here.

I have nothing to say about it beyond what I have, but let's by all means let the thread continue on the proper track.

M. Scott

 

someone said earlier that Satanism is about indulgence and selfishness, IMO they have hit the nail right on the head.

If we look at the Christian Church (and don't hit me if i am wrong here please) showing the best way of life as one of piety and self-denial, then Satanism is the opposite.

BTW, i've had a look at his site which is here and there's all sorts of stuff he made up about himself. For once i agree that satan is the prince of lies, or exagerations.

BTW, Wiccans beleive that their Horned God was labels Satan when the Christians were stamping out the Old Ways.

 

Well, you have to remember, Satan was described as a horned dragon in the Bible. You're most likely right though in that they saw the horned god, and thought that since he had horns, he'd be a good representation of Satan. A bit ignorant and misleading, I must say.

 

the Horned God has horns as they show his masculinty. one of my friends said once she was surprised that satan wasn't female given all the bad rap women have in the old testament.


i've said in another thread that a lot of the Old Ways were Christiainised, Satan is but one.

BTW Fireman, good to see we agree for once.

 

Jedi_Lerner,

"What truth? All I see is blind faith. My eyes are open and I want to believe that there is some almighty creator out there, but unlike you I require some good old proof. Not dreams or vision that could be the mind playing up on me."


Maybe because you are blind? No insult here. You are spiritually blind, as scripture teaches, as I was before the Lord opened my eyes, virtually literally.

You need to prove yourself to God, not vice versa. You can argue this, but then you are really only arguing for your own limitations. God is God, and He has proven Himself, in His words through the Logos, which is Christ Jesus.

God uses people. He did for me, which brought me to an intellectual summit of sorts, for which I decided to live by God's commandments whether the Lord was real or not. I wasn't going to be a sham and call myself a "Christian," just honestly endeavor to live a life of love. You see, God wants you to love Him for Who He actually is, not for what He can do.

The Lord did reveal Himself to me, and I have witnessed the supernatural power of the Almighty as well as the demonic. But, before that, intellectually I arrived at the realization of the supreme law of love which is embodied in the Commandments. I knew those words were right. If you love people you don't do that which would hurt them, not intentionally.
You don't steal, because it hurts others, or sleep with someones wife, or covet because it hurts yourself, etc. Most importantly you don't want to do that which hurts the Lord God because you love Him.

But until you love Him, the commandments seem a repressive burden.


Unlike you at this junture, I eventually gave up demanding "proof," because at some point a little wisdom and actual perspective kicked in and I knew "if there is a God who am I to demand of Him?"

"If thou art the son of God turn these stones to bread." So, demanded satan proof. Sound familiar? That's one of the temptations put to Christ. Did He do it? Nope.
Also note, satan questioned Christ as though Christ were a liar.

If you really want to know there's a Creator quit emulating the devil.

IF, hypothetical if, there is a God, and Christ is the Messiah, would you live for Him?

It's not easy. You'll be rejected, but then Christ was rejected. Are you willing to suffer? The world will hate you. I'm just letting you know what you're in for.
Friends, family, won't accept it when you tell them you've heard from the Lord. Is that okay?

There's also a liklihood that the devil you think isn't real will send something to pay a visit periodically. Are you prepared for that?

Are you willing and capable to stand before others and tell them, "I was wrong?" Because you will find out exactly how wrong you currently are in your views. Can you lay aside pride?


But here's the crux, there are two people in here telling you of the reality of something you refuse to accept. Two witnesses.

If you read Qui-rune's post above he mentions someone he knows. Maybe you can count that as a third testimony, just right here in this thread. Maybe not, being it's secondhand. But my experience is firsthand.

Perhaps you'll recognize an invitation extended toward your life.

One of us, you or I, is wrong. Reality is as my Lord informs or as you think. The Lord Jesus Christ states the devil and demonic are real, you contradict his words. What camp would that put you in? You're helping to perpetrate a dangerous lie, albeit inadvertantly.

Am I trying to frighten you? No, I am not. But the demonic are damn frightening, and that's a fact from someone who does know.

You want to know about them, what they can do? I can tell you. It's frightening, not intentionally a scare tactic, but if someone doesn't know the Lord, it should be terrifying.


But how do you intend to find out there's a Creator if you won't listen to those who know Him and how you can reach out to Him?

Your words, whether intentional or unintentional are basically calling the Living God a liar. Do you realize that?