Full Series Savage Opress

He seemed to have had fast reflexes and the ability to anticipate certain attacks which would imply he had Force potential, if he shared Maul's blood , and the force is genetic, it is hard to ignore that and just go by what the writers say .

 

I've actually come up with a pretty solid head canon on Talzin's treatment of Savage: He's not her son.
At some point after Maul was born, Maul's dad slept with another Nightsister. Nine months later, Savage is born, with Feral following a year or so later. This to me explains why Talzin favors Maul but treats Savage as nothing more than a pawn: He and Maul are brothers, but he's not her child. It makes sense when you think about it: She favors Maul because he's her son, while to her Savage is just another Nightbrother despite the blood ties between him and Maul.
I know you're all thinking that this contradicts the EU, but I've never really read up on that. In any case, since TCW overwrites EU material as it sees fit, I think this might actually work... Or maybe I'm wrong and Nightsisters just have a tendancy to show favoritism to one of their biological children over the rest.

 

In the opening of Brothers the announcer says that Talzin is Savage's 'creator'. I don't know if that's literal, or referring to the ritual in Monster.

 

Hi MandaloreRex,

Soo many space to create flash-back-episodes about Savage's live. His mission to Affa, how he created his lightsaber and some other missions maybe... I have quite a plenty of ideas.

 

Or perhaps the force wasnt awakened in Savage like it was in Ventress. Anakin and Luke didnt awake themselves either, while Ezra apparently did. Its its very difficult the writers thinking with the established Force is genetic, and both Talzin and Maul are force imbued at an extreme level. The writers have Talzin pouring her powers(and apparently her essence) into Savage. Then them saying through the character, he was never like Maul which can be interpreted a few different ways but they appear to want as their admittance that Savage was their poor attempt at a Maul clone, they got the real deal now so who needs this character and in the universe its just Savage regretting he's not like Maul he was created and artificial and so unworthy plus he was killed in combat which even to him would be the ultimate weakness that he failed... and failed his brother/master.

 

We may never know what Savage's last words really refer to. I always thought it refers to Savage's mere body strenght and his Sith-attitudes in character. Because he got his humanity back. But maybe his force-abilities did also vanish after this impaling by Sidious.
For we don't have an after-impalation-Savage who may show us if he still can mete out Dooku's and Maul's lessons, we have to die un-knowing - like Savage.

It would also be interesting to know what happened that that un-named Nikto-Jedi with the green lightsaber was killed by Savage mentioned in the introduction of "revival".

 

Based on everything we've seen and heard, I don't believe Savage was Talzin's son, nor do I feel he was Force sensitive the same way Maul is. It was Talzin's power flowing in Savage's veins. Maul is the Son of Dathomir, the Sith Lord with a destiny. Savage was a means to Mauls return. He was important to Talzin, but not like Maul is - she 'died' for Maul, she wouldn't have done the same for Savage.

 

Well, their names are all quite similar: Feral, Maul, Savage, all quite sinister names. Maybe that's just a custom on Dathomir for the males? Except for Viscus. Viscus is the only other named Nightbrother. His name means "the organs in the cavity of the body".

So that's something I guess

 

Opress is Maul's brother of that I dont doubt as its central to the storyline and characterization they went with Maul on the show, wanted to show some vulnerability and human aspects of his personality(as they would do with Vader and Anakin himself on the show lapses between the light and dark with all his aggression and being self conscious of his actions with remorse). Maul's feelings and bond with him genuine even onto death, Maul stood against Sidious in a stance as if protecting his dead brothers body.

 

They went in a similar direction with Ventress and the Nightsisters in Massacre.

However, I found Maul's bond to his brother more believable as Ventress only cares about "her sisters" when she's out of luck and allies, her feelings seem less genuine.

 

Exactly that's why Mother Talzin didn't send Ventress for the search of Darth Maul but Savage, who had lost a brother shortly before and was surely deploring this even though he wouldn't show. Thus Talzin was confident, that Savage will be successful because he was eager to compensate the loss. Regardless if they were really brothers or not - they behaved like brothers and that is, what counts even if Talzin did perhaps lie to Savage what I doubt.

 

True. Ventress calls Savage even "monster". Oh the irony! Just one episode later she casually stabs a guy to death just because he said something she didn't like. They're more similar than they think, both puppets of Talzin.

 

In German there is a proverb: The most annoying faults in other people are our own.

Maybe Ventress would have even searched for Maul that time. But only for a big bounty.

 

She was an abusive slave owner towards Savage. She quickly embraced the Nightsisters chauvinism against men(Katie Lucas?) and in a more aggressive and fanatic manner than even shown by Talzin herself. At first Ventress has a begrudging admiration for Savage's skill and determination, but this quickly fades to just her as an abusive dog master and typical female evil cow. Ventress's mistreatment of Savage was what aided in Savage's breaking from her command and shedding the spell, his will and anger overpowered the Nightsister magik. Once Opress was unleashed Dooku and Ventress were not match, they had to quickly combine their force powers to keep him at a distance and away from them otherwise they'd be killed. She takes up the hunt cause Ventress's ego is too great, she took Savage's breaking from her command and growing power as a personal insult. She did know that Savage by that time had significantly grown more powerful and skilled in his ability nor that his brother he was with was the great Sith Lord Darth Maul. After she realized she made a mistake attacking them both. Kenobi says the obvious, they're both outmatched against the two Sith Brothers. She would never again took up arms against Savage and Kenobi warned her that they'd both now be looking to kill her so she went into hiding to where she eventually ended up in the slum levels of Coruscant still working as a masked Bounty Hunter.

Her dialogue in Season 5 explains her mindset, when she talks to Tano and later Anakin and a little before in the Boba Fett arc. Ventress's story is one of abandoned and lost without purpose, she's searching for a new master and a sense of belonging all her masters either died prematurely or betrayed her, and the institutions to which she belonged either threw her out or were destroyed..

But the whole inadvertent collision course Talzin set Ventress on with Savage and even Maul never made any logical or even plot sense to me. .

 

Actually Ventress was chauvinistic against every man, even when he was more powerful than her like Anakin or Obi-Wan. But because Savage became her personal slave, she could unleash all of her angers and malices on him, just passing to him every injustice, she had ever suffered - a very inferior and perfide behaviour.

Just inserting this post from the "Son-of-Dathomir-TCW"-thread:

Actually I think Talzin intended the teaming-up of Maul and Savage to be her plan B, when Ventress and Savage failed on Dooku. What should she have done alone without any other Nightsister with Savage? She wasn't in her body to get more offspring. And definitely not, if Savage was her son too. And what should Savage have done so alone? He couldn't go back to the nightbrothers with his newly asquired forces and abilities. And Maul wouldn't have been able to form the Shadow-Collective without Savage's help. All-alone they were quite nothing, together they became all. One plus one makes more than just two.

I think Talzin wanted Maul and Savage to gain more power enabeling her to become more powerful in the end too when teaming up later against Sidious. Meanwhile Talzin was busy with snatching the force-abilities of other people like the queen of Bardotta and her people as we saw in TCW season 6 trying to regain her physical body and strength.

Even though I know, what Savage did mean with his last words to Maul, I don't think Savage was an unworthy apprentice. He passed the exams on the crucible thus proved worthy enough to acquire that powers Talzin and the Nightsisters imbued on him. If one person who is failing against Sidious is considered to be unworthy at all, than there wouldn't be any worthy apprentices around. Except Vader who waited until Sidious became old with waning forces - a thing Darth Bane despised heavily. That was the reason he looked after a new apprentice because his apprentice Zannah in his opinion waited to long for finally challenging her master.

Instead Savage was the perfect partner for meting out Maul's plans. He integrated his powers into Maul's actions, also with the Mandos and the Black Sun and the Pykes when Maul wasn't around. When they were still in the camp on Zanbar, Savage talked with Ziton Moj, while Maul was busy with Pre Vizsla. Thus he wasn't an appendix to Maul only. And he was aware about what happened around them and he would intervene if something would go wrong also on his own, when Maul wasn't around. And that's just what a perfect apprentice does.

 

Can I just say how adorable this shot is?



"I was so worried about you..." ♡
"We'll get through this together... brother."

 

Yeah! This thread hit the 10 000-viewes-benchmark

Anybody out there who may provide the deleted starting-scene in "Brothers", where the service -droid and the waitress Sassi are unnerving Savage till he chokes Sassi after she grabbed his Talisman? I would sooo much like to watch this. At least Disney should provide it for free on youtube to be fair towards poor Savage for he isn't a gratuitous strangler.

 

I like his development when he answered in "The Lawless" Almecs question: "What about the people?" with a "Häääärgh" How would you probably translate that?

 

I can understand that Savage flipped sometimes and got upset easily after ten days sith-training with Dooku only. But Ventress was trained by Dooku several years. She should know. ...

But maybe I just can't expect Ventress to interact with Savage like Satine did with Obi-Wan in the throne-room at Mandalore.

 

Everything in the new canon points to that Vader served Palpatine out of faith in his vision and devotion, not fear. The old Lucas dogma that Sith only ever serve themselves and that apprentices always seek to dispose of their master, is weakening and may fall soon.

 

Stover portrayed the dynamic between Dooku and Sidious that way in the ROTS novelization - so why not have Vader and Sidious that way to at least a degree?

By TESB however, I could see Vader entertaining ambitions to overthrow Sidious though - and that his offer to Luke was sincere.

 

Well, there are reasons for Vader's behavior in TESB.

He is obsessed with order, yet the galaxy is erupting in chaos all around him and the Emperor is seemingly powerless to stop it, or doesn't even want to. It makes sense that this would cause a rift between them, especially if the Emperor doesn't treat him with the respect he thinks he deserves (like in the current Darth Vader series).

It would be an interesting story to see how their relationship crumbles and how Vader starts to plot against his master for real.

Because tbh, the idea that Vader served Palpatine out of fear never made much sense to me. Vader wasn't afraid to risk his life in the battle of Yavin, and what could Palpatine possibly do to him that would be worse than Mustafar?

But if Palpatine plays his role as fatherly figure well, if he gets Vader to believe in him and becomes the only friend that Vader has left, well then I can see why Vader would serve him for decades.

 

I beileve Vader has wanted to over throw Sheev for a long time and he is just looking for the right person as Dooku was.

 

- Lucas

http://www.rollingstone.com/movies/news/george-lucas-and-the-cult-of-darth-vader-20050602

 

Lucas also said that a benevolent dictator is the best type of government, so how much do you want to listen to that guy?