JCC school shooting in Conn.

So I have a question: Let's say France loosened its gun laws and adopted the U.S. laws.

Would gun violence be as great as the U.S.?

I would argue far from it. In fact, I think many people there would shun the idea of guns. Guns would likely sit on shelves and collect dust. Sure there would be some people buying them but not at the rates and with the obsession Americans do.

Why? Culture.

 

Damn straight! We should arm children, that's the only way to prevent this happening again.

Shane, Americans are deeply ****ed-up people and it seems they are frequently resorting to guns to confirm this to the world at large. Given that these criminal types are obtaining the same throbbing-erection endorsing firearms as God-fearin' Americans such as yourself, what would you do about this death culture? You're incapable, as a people, of not being slightly batty but it seems the concept of arming you has made it worse. I'm keen to hear what the answer is.

Oh, and for the record - I'd hate for there to be confusion - saying "prevention is a deterrent" is what's known as propaganda and has no place in a debate or discussion.
EDIT: I just saw your post. The issue is absolutely culture - you're too culturally underdeveloped and immature to be allowed guns. Guns don't kill people, Americans with guns kill people. So, either Americans go, or guns go, but you two kids can't play well together.

Simply put, you've failed to show you can handle them like adults.

 

To be fair though, muskets were also used by armies of other governments so the citizenry were equivalently armed. Today that is not the case.

edit: Ender you might be right. You're arriving at the same destination as KW and other gun control advocates but via a different route.
But yes, culturally we are like children in more ways than one. It seems we like it that way. Even our style of dress and lingo has become more adolescent.
Americans seem to despise old age.

 

Which just goes to show that the Second Amendment is wildly outdated at this point.

 

But I don't think that culture can account for everything. The town the shooter was from did not have a strong gun culture (a person from the town interviewed on the BBC indicated as much, anyway) and yet he still went and purchased 3 guns and committed acts of violence due to mental instability.

Thus, I don't think the issue here is the culture. This man clearly planned to carry out an act of violence. And guns were the means he chose. What we as society have to look at (at least in terms of gun control) is how and why this man got access to guns. Why can mentally unsound individuals gain access so easily to weapons? Why are such dangerous weapons available to civilians? These are questions that should be asked because regardless of culture, mentally unsound individuals will make use of whatever tools they have. In Japan and China, these were knives. In the United States, though, it is guns because they are so widely available and easily procured.

Thus, it becomes a matter of law.

 

In some places it is. It won't be in Michigan for much longer.

The governor is holding off signing the bill today in response to the school shooting, but he'll sign it once the furor dies down. Mind you there's nothing in the bill requiring "enhanced" CPL possessors to be sane--only that they be skilled.

Please, nobody tell me that the kindergarten teacher should have been packing to protect her class from her homicidal son.

I don't particularly care if you want to shoot deer for food or keep a handgun under your pillow in case your zombie apocalyptic neighbors attack. Let's just not be stupid and allow private possession of assault weapons or concealed guns in the schools. A little restraint would go a long way.

 

Exactly. For the France example, if one French man went berserk and had easier access to guns, this same type of thing could happen.

 

Maybe most of our rights are? Why not? It's not just the second amendment that's failed.

 

Yes, many people there would shun the idea of guns. And many others would buy guns. Suburb riots would sure get a whole new character. Out of sheer ignorance, you're painting a horror scenario... unwittingly invalidating your entire line of reasoning.

Just when I thought I'd seen it all... I come across an American with an overly positive view of the French!

 

The fundamental nature of speech, religion, and justice haven't changed over the last 200 years.

The fundamental nature of firearms has.

 

Well that's a slippery slope. Because the concept of free speech has changed so much, may as well just do away with the First Amendment too? Oh wait...

 

You're comparing apples to oranges. The second amendment is wildly outdated because its stated purpose -- arming the citizenry in order to protect the nation -- is not longer applicable.

In an age of tanks, airplanes, submarines, etc. (not to mention nuclear weapons), allowing the populace to own guns doesn't protect the nation. Technology is at such a point that arming the citizenry is by no means an effective strategy for national security. In that sense, yes, the Second Amendment is wildly outdated because it no longer fulfills what the founders intended it to do.

 

so apparently it was adam, not ryan lanza. adam's 20, not 24. and the guns belong to the mom, the teacher who was murdered along with her kindergarten class. so... guess owning guns made her pretty safe, eh?

im reminded of the statistic that if you own a gun you're twice as likely to be shot yourself with it or shoot a loved one as you are to shoot a stranger

haha you're willing to claim anything to protect your infantile obsession with guns. no assertion to absurd or outlandish JUST PLEASE DONT TAKE MY GUNNSSSS

this. this is the "cultural difference" that causes the problem. you personify it

 

Its simplistic to think passing a few strict laws will solve the issue. Nope. It will just create an underground economy rife with arms trade. So basically, you will ruin what little transparency there currently is.

Bring on the War on Guns......yeah, just like the War on Drugs.

Cant stop it. Culture.

 

If I read current legislation correctly, Michigan is protecting their schools from unions.

 

27 seems to be the final tally: "20 children, six adults and the shooter are dead".

Also...
'Mark Kelly, who's lived through this kind of horror, has issued a statement. He's the husband of former Congresswoman Gabby Giffords who was shot in the head at a massacre in Tucson, Arizona, in January 2011. Here's what he said:

"I just woke up in my hotel room in Beijing, China, to learn that another mass shooting has taken place - this time at the Sandy Hook Elementary School in Connecticut. My thoughts and prayers are with the families of the victims and the entire community of Newtown, CT. I just spoke to Gabby, and she sends her prayers from Tucson.

As we mourn, we must sound a call for our leaders to stand up and do what is right. This time our response must consist of more than regret, sorrow, and condolence. The children of Sandy Hook Elementary School and all victims of gun violence deserve leaders who have the courage to participate in a meaningful discussion about our gun laws - and how they can be reformed and better enforced to prevent gun violence and death in America. This can no longer wait."'

 

Okay Gollum.

 

His brother was found dead at his home.

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/12/14/shooting-reported-at-connecticut-elementary-school/

 

god, he's such a wonderful figurehead. imagine what he could do if he used his powers for good instead of evil?

 

Seriously, can we please just avoid the political discussion in this thread, and start another thread for it? Or use the US politics thread?

 

no. you're not a mod (thank GOD). politics are supremely relevant here

 

Wrong.

Stop doing what every pro-gun idiot does and insist upon viewing these as isolated incidents. All it does it show you recognise there is a problem but that you're also unwilling to do anything about it.

How often do you read about person A shooting person B over so trivial a grievance that it beggars belief? Often.

Guns are not respected by Americans, nor are they treated with anything close to the requisite level of seriousness that they need. They are playthings for a nation of spoiled children who've been spoonfed their "god" given rights their whole lives. Guns are an equaliser, in the eyes of many.

The issue is not therefore how do you stop a criminal from a deranged act. You won't. The difference is that the example of China was not part of a wider systemic issue (oh, and whomever posted that as a counter-argument to gun control; could you please sterilise yourself? It's best for everyone - and I speak on behalf of everyone - if your genes die with you). This most recent in a long and exhausting list of examples.

Guns are too readily turned to by Americans and it is because, by and large, Americans have failed to observe the object and purpose of the second amendment to the point at which there is more benefit in rescinding it than keeping it. Instead of recognising that the cultural context of the time permitted such a gross oversight by the founders of the US, people have taken it as carte blanche to have as many guns as they want, and use them for whatever they want, because it is their right.

It's absolutely akin to a man working to build a fortune in his lifetime, and his fat, crass, lazy, indolent son spends it all.

Acts of mass violence cannot be avoided. That is neither the question nor the point. The point is how often this happens in the US, and how often in general people use firearms to resolve disputes, or to assert their authority, or for all kinds of infantile reasons.

So actually, I agree with you that it's a point of law. The second amendment, which needs to be repealed entirely. Like the fat, lazy, indolent child above, Americans squander what they're given and they need to lose their toys. The world, including many Americans, is sick of yet another shooting in the US.

Also, when does shame kick in? You have this kind of behavior in third world tribal areas. Like with the death penalty, you rub shoulders with some of the nastiest places on earth but you're still so enraptured by your own sense of self-importance that you fail to see it.

 

I was looking forward to hearing about how this kind of stuff doesn't happen in slovakia.

 

No. Just no. Not the place for that remark.