JCC Scottish Independence Referendum Thread

So when is this decision final?

 

Or even "non-sports" like Wrestling?

Yep, the SNP would have Trident removed. How that would effect any posisble membership of NATO I don't know.

The referendum will be held on 18th September. If it's a no vote, then that's that. If it's yes, there will have to be negotiations to finalize the divorce (currency, EU membership, etc...) and Scotland probably wouldn't become an independent nation until 2016.

 

mwahahahaha

 

If the Scots vote for independence, will they insist that Britain re-design the the Union Jack without the Scottish cross? The Union Jack without the Scot cross and blue is a terribly drab affair.

 

Yes, I would assume what's left of Great Britain will be looking for a new flag.

 

I can't see the British flag changing. I mean, given how entrenched it is globally...

 

In light of these difficulties it will cause to the totemic imagery of royalism, I have now reconciled myself to the possibility that this is perhaps a worthy endeavor after all.

 

With all due respect, your views on this matter are silly.

...

slightly_unhinged, as per that list, it seems I can't either.

 

I assume countries in the Commonwealth with the Union Flag on will keep it as is since they were part of the Empire/Commonwealth when the Union existed. Changing of the flag in the UK itself would be a hassle but I don't see Australia & New Zealand and others having to do it.

 

There was a poll in The Sunday Times today (won't link to it as it's behind a paywall) showing YES to Independence on 41% and NO to Independence on 48%, but excluding Don't Know's it still looks too close to call at YES 46% No 48%.

However, overall, it does seem as though with the referendum coming closer opinion is hardening against independence.

I'm a little more confident that we'll preserve the Union than I was when I created this thread back in April, but by no means certain.

 

Do they have a stable enough economy and government?

 

Scotland has an effective Parliament, legal system and civil service, so politically they could easily form an independent nation.

Economically is another matter and nobody really knows what will happen in terms of Scottish currency and Scottish wealth. The failure of the SNP to really persuade Scot's that they can be economically wealthy as an independent nation seem's to be what's causing a slow firming up of the NO vote going into the final stages of the campaign.

 

Well to be fair, household saving would be high but spending would be low meaning the economy wouldn't flourish.

lol @ Scotland for even considering this.

lol @ Jabba-wocky for supporting it for the worst reasons.

 

i posted this elsewhere, but here's famed scottish man-of-letters, the late Iain Banks, beloved by a growing faction of the jcc for his The Culture series of science fiction books, on why he thinks the scots are ready to determine their own destiny

the only good objection he can think of is that an independent scotland would "condemn the english left to perpetual opposition", and he says its a concern he takes seriously, but ultimately he seems to think independence would be worth the cost

 

Wasn't Banks an avowed socialist?

EDIT: Yeah, I just got to the part of the article where he says he'd support a socialist UK. So, yes, I'm going to politely smile and utterly ignore his sentimental rubbish going forward.

 

There is a view that were Scotland to become independent they would never have to "suffer Tory rule" again!

Personally, I think that if Scotland had to manage their own economic affairs the realities of running a "tax and spend" economy would inevitably lead to a rapid rise in a center right party (which would be Conservative or Tory in all but name) and it wouldn't take many decades for right wingers to be back in business in an independent Scotland - Much more so than if the status quo is maintained, actually...

 

well of course he'd support a socialist UK over an independent scotland. what does he look like a trot to you?

seriously tho, that's how socialism works, dawg. its an international movement. nation states are a means to an end, a stage of development, and one that's already worn out its welcome as far as we're concerned.

 

ultimately i think the following piece by janice galloway's opening/concluding line rings with the most profound truth for an outside observer of the situation like myself "You will not miss us at all, just what we signified – the last kick of Empire and a lost notion of Glory."

english (and wannabe english) nailbiting about scottish independence isnt about "preserving the union", its about saving face. let it go

because scandinavia doesnt exist. right. i forgot. my bad

 

No, it's not Maik but that's the arrogant, ignorant American in you talking.

 

The example of Scandinavia is always cited and yes, it is possible that an independent Scotland might become a permanent left-wing hegemony, but I think it's unlikely in the long-term.

Short to medium term of course it will be left wing governments all the way, but nothing last's forever and an independent Scotland will change in ways that are pretty much unimaginable now so that in 30 years time it will almost certainly look VERY different to how it looks today.

EDIT: Though let's not forget how I started today's comments - Opinion seems to be moving away from YES in any case, with time running out for the SNP to persuade a majority of Scots to leave the Union.

 

I feel like more than "having seen Trainspotting and Braveheart" are required to opine on the validity of Scotland as a separate state. The main issue being a deficit spend of around £6bn a year between tax revenues from HMRC and spend from Westminster back. Now, the SNP have indicated in the short term a preference for retaining the pound which raises a few questions, not least of which what happens if Scotland suffers inflation or deflation relative to the rest of the UK - the risk of contagion both ways is multiplied.

But, no, let's go around thinking ceding ties to Britain is somehow the mark of a worthy civilisation, effectively freeing itself from the bonds of something something who cares.

 

G-FETT so i guess your arguement is that nobody knows what will happen in the distant future so scots should just take your word for it an assume it will be ****** for them to become independent?

well i suppose ill just take the scottish woman's word for it then and agree to disagree with the weird, monarchy-fetishist australian in you