Clone Wars Season 4 Preview (SDCC News & Spoilers)

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by Claws_Bane, Mar 31, 2011.

  1. Swashbucklingjedi Game Winner

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    Kalevala was said to be "toxic desert"....

    there is nothing bad in the line if someone actually joins the death watch but it is not in it's place in that scene i think.... or their city has a dumb name:p

    In eu-story they would accept it but when it's in TCW:p .... totally different thing certainly....

    @Quango I disagree- Rex even has Mandalorian symbols in his helmet so they cannot drop that story without internal contradiction in TCW..... Commandos probably appear anyway mando-wannabes or not

    I think that we are going to see many mandowannabes anyway since those guys in trailer are probably DW-recruits, just like Lux...


  2. Alexrd Force Ghost

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    Hoping that was a trailer mock up.
  3. Swashbucklingjedi Game Winner

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    It almost certainly is..... looks like he is giving orders not welcoming anyone....
  4. Dark Lord Tarkas Force Ghost

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    Now there you may be on to something.
  5. QuangoFett Force Ghost

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    Needless to say, I disagree with you. :p

    The sole Mandalorian connection the clones have is that the man they're cloned from wore Mandalorian armour, and the design of their own plastic armour is based on it. However, you can also see elements of the Old Republic Troopers' armour (the basic armour structure) and Senate Guard armour (the fin on top of the helmet) in the clone trooper armour design. The shapes of the armour plates and the T-visor are Mandalorian in appearance, but little else.

    The Jaig eyes? Well, according to the EU, the ARC Troopers start wearing kama skirts because they're inspired by the Thyrsus Sun Guard. Is there a Sun Guard connection to the clones in this case? Is it too much to expect that Rex simply likes the look of something he has third-hand experience of?

    My objection was to the idea that there should be a fifth column of clones who have any loyalty to anything but the Republic and their brothers. That was one of the more despicable parts of the later Republic Commando novels.

    The "mandowannabes" you speak of are most likely just some violent nationalists from Mandalore and elsewhere. They're already Mandalorians. They're no more "mandowannabe" than Anders Breivik is a "Norwegian-wannabe".
  6. Swashbucklingjedi Game Winner

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    characters with helmets on are easy to dub:p

    Honestly i hate the way Old Republic shows republic troops with full body armors:oops: we haven't seen any senate commandos before the war so could be they instead received armor after clone-armor design....

    Jango Fett still has connection to mandalorians- i don't think his backstory needs to be changed- he was adopted by commandos and he became one of them- changing him to random bounty hunter is not needed- he is already dead and that would ruin his character- i really really don't think this is needed and by far nothing in TCW have questioned Jango's mandalorian heritage- except Almec who is neither trustworthy IU nor he knows about Jango who is one of the very few survivors from Galidraan...

    I don't think so- look like they are mercenaries- rodian born to mandalorian family? Bit hard to believe....

    What the heck he has to do with this? that is really bad comparison
  7. QuangoFett Force Ghost

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    I'm talking about the Senate Guards we see as early as TPM. They have fins on their helmets, just like the clone troopers.

    Not just "one of the few". He's the only survivor of the Battle of Galidraan. In 2005, EU writers then tried to weasel in a few "other" survivors and we ended up with a whole planet of Fett-imitators. TCW's retcon dealt with this by making it clear that the actual Mandalorians weren't these people.

    Whatever sort of Mandalorian Fett and Mereel were, this is not the same type as either Satine Kryze, Pre Vizsla, Almec or any of the Death Watch commandos. You'd think that the actual bona fide Mandalorian government would be aware of a "leader of the Mandalorians" like Fett, but they aren't and are more concerned about the bounty hunter Fett tarnishing their reputation.

    It's like comparing an American of distant Scottish ancestry to someone born and raised in Scotland. No amount of No True Scotsman fallacies change the facts about who's Mandalorian and who isn't.

    What Rodian? I'm genuinely interested if there's an overlooked Rodian in the Death Watch camp shown in the trailer. I recall only helmeted humanoids. The only Rodian I remember is in prison.


    He's an ultranationalist terrorist, just like the fictional Death Watch.

    You could compare Death Watch to the Taleban or any other ultranationalist terrorist group. My point is that the Death Watch are a politically-motivated terrorist group. Lux might be the exception (perhaps his father is Mandalorian), but I don't see the Death Watch as much more than a sci-fi/fantasy version of neo-Nazi terrorist groups. They might rely on the "Mandalorian Diaspora" for personnel and support, but ultimately their goal is to topple the actual Mandalorian government.

    Really, it's best if they put the EU conception of the Mandalorians to rest.
  8. Seerow SWTV★Mod

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    IRL, Rex looks the way he does because he was custom made to look good on marketing material and on the tags and packaging for merchandise. It was also a nod to the fanboys.

    In universe I don't think Rex really did anything to earn his jaig eyes or cares about the guy he was cloned from's heritage. I think he found something he thought looked neat and intimidating and put it on his helmet.

    They suit him well. I see Rex as something of an oxymoron. A hero yet unsafe at the same time.
  9. Swashbucklingjedi Game Winner

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    No they don't have "antennae fin" but ceremonial whatever they are in english.... they are decoration not antennaes- i dunno is some sourcebook says they are also antennaes though.....

    I don't think anything is clear in this issue you have lot of fanon-conclusions- right now this thing is a mess....

    What Rodian? I'm genuinely interested if there's an overlooked Rodian in the Death Watch camp shown in the trailer. I recall only helmeted humanoids. The only Rodian I remember is in prison.[/quote]Prison?o_O I think we have no proof to either way yet, but i personally think those fellows "rodian" and a man with tattoos and helmet (based on boba fett -concetp arts) may be Death Watch recruits- just like Lux..... of course that's my speculation but just as valid as your "prison-speculation"- it looks like itäs house where they are in- not prison.... i cannot say yet but i was talking about these guys- of course i can be wrong....

    We will see ,but i disagree generally about mandalorians and I also hate these real-world comparisons you made....
  10. Seerow SWTV★Mod

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    You think Deathwatch is breaking those guys out of prison?
  11. QuangoFett Force Ghost

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    That wasn't my point. My point is that the clone trooper armour owes quite a lot of its design to templates other than Jango Fett's Mandalorian armour, including the Senate Guards. The "influence" of the TOR Troopers on the clone armour is a retroactive change, but the Senate Guards appeared in a film released in 1999. In general, you could say that the clone trooper armour - as it was designed in the 1999-2002 period at Lucasfilm - is a combination of stormtrooper, Jango Fett and Senate Guard armour.

    It's easy and all too common to overemphasise the Mandalorian influence on the clones for whatever reason.

    :rolleyes:

    Only the very last part there is "fanon" in the sense that it's a reasonable conclusion based on how the Mandalorians are portrayed in TCW.

    The rest of that is authentic. I've been following PT-era Mandalorian canon since 2002. Fett is the only Galidraan survivor as shown in the Open Seasons comic. Then the Republic Commando series introduced other Mandalorians like Kal Skirata and Walon Vau, who teach their clone commando trainees to honour their "heritage". A whole culture sprang up around these other Mandalorians and their clone trainees, embellished with magnificent detail by Karen Traviss.

    Then TCW retconned most of this by showing the actual T-Canon, Lucas-definition of the Mandalorians - an urbanised, technologically-advanced civilisation. Lucas' conception of the Mandos was of a soldier/military society rather than a warrior/farmer society. At the time of the episodes, they're under a pacifist's rule, but this could change.

    Ergo, the actual T-Canon, Lucas-definition of the Mandalorians is not the same as that provided by Traviss and the EU. It's really that simple. The other lot probably still exists, but they aren't Lucas' Mandalorians. That may be "fanon", but it's an incredibly minor stretch based on what's already been shown.

    Yeah, terrorism sucks. However, it's the allegory which the writers are aiming for. As long as they treat the issue with sensitivity, then it should be fine.

    On the Rodian and the tattooed dude with the McQuarrie Fett helmet being DW recruits - that really is a big "fanon" stretch. Up to now, the Death Watch has been exactly as I described - a reactionary ultranationalist terrorist group, politically-motivated and intent on toppling the central government. They might hire mercenaries, but that doesn't seem to be their modus operandi. They send their own snipers, saboteurs and bombers on missions rather than third-party contractors. I'm more inclined to see them as Separatist-aligned mercenaries. The CIS has a history of using mercs, and they need to use them in order to make up for the competence gap between their troops and those of the Republic
  12. SpecialOpsUnit Force Ghost

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    I would say yes if they were still aligned with the Separatists, which right now I am doubting.

    I also don't see anything wrong with "Welcome to Death Watch" what if like Seerow said, Lux passes trials and become a member of Death Watch? Welcome to Death Watch would fit there then. It also didn't sound like Favreau's voice, I'm guessing he didn't say his lines yet.
  13. Seerow SWTV★Mod

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    I would be surprised if we didn't get an episodes similar to when Ventress is selecting a pawn. With Deathwatch commandos beating the crap out of would be Deathwatch recruits. That'd be kinda fun.
  14. ImNotAStarWarsFanboy Force Ghost

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    Filoni: "Hey d'ya reckon people would notice if we grabbed some of our scripts from previous episodes and changed the names and locations but kept everything else the same?"
    Writers: "Why not, we're long spent on new ideas anyway."
    [face_plain] [face_tired] 8-} :rolleyes: :oops:
  15. Seerow SWTV★Mod

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    formulamaticly writen kids shows? That must be something new TCW is trying...

    It wouldn't be that much the same and I like a good old fashioned beatdown which wasn't exactly what happened in season 3.
  16. Swashbucklingjedi Game Winner

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    No no no... But why would those fellows have anything to do with prison?
  17. Seerow SWTV★Mod

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    I doubt it but won't rule it out.

    I hope they still manager to fit in a Deathwatch commandos vs clone troopers brawl. Preferably disarmed; just a plastic flying, blood splattering, yelling, fists flying, and Deadrising-ish good old fashioned fight. I know that's sick. But I want some beatdown type fights in addition to lightsaber duels. That's why I'm looking forward to the clone vs. slaver fight in the trailer. I could almost go for Padme vs. Shark so long as there is some good ass kicking is involved. =P
  18. Swashbucklingjedi Game Winner

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    Senate guards don't even have armor- they are designed to be predecessor of red guards- i see absolutely no connection to clone trooper's design before they created senate commandos with armor....

    Reason is that i happen to like that idea of clones being successors of mandos- since that way mandos get their revenge in form of order 66 when clones defeat the jedi....

    Also Vode An is too cool song not to be canon:p

    It is my guess for now- just like saying Lux' father was mandalorian or that those are bounty hunters involved in prison break- both are equally just guesses....

    Maybe you're right but looks like rodian and tattooed fellow (plus guy with Arguys-hairstyle) are in some shack rather than Coruscant- looks like interior of "japanese"/mandalorian/kalevalan whatever house for me- Boba Fett was basis of mandalorian city-design so makes sense to have his concept design used for customised mando as well... wouldn't be first time we see rodian mandalorian either-

    DW being "national terrorists" is actually your fanon- only thing that is said is that they are terrorists who would like warriorculture to return and think that Satine is destroying mandalorian image- they oppose pacifism and would like to keep mando traditions but they are not racistic or anything- and adoption for example has been part of mandoculture for a long time so strict nationalism is not exactly their thing- hiring mercenaries to make them mandos is in line with this- being mandalorian is not exactly genetic thing, so worthy mercenaries are okay addition to their force -if they are good enough to be mandos- Welcome to Death Watch!.....

    Also guy with tattoos and prototype mando-helmet has a coat with furry collar... on Coruscant?[face_thinking] and look at furniture style- pole with "horns" in it is much like those torches or whatever there is in that village- one thing behind the shelf may even be similar.... well thingy[face_laugh] as there is in the shot with landing mandos... of course it may be re-used model but i think there is now more evidence to support my theory than any of your "prison break involves that tattooed guy" theories:p

    my fistfighting quota was filled in Monster:p it is something they probably add though if clone commandoes step in....
  19. QuangoFett Force Ghost

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    The fin. Take careful note of the massive protrusion on the top of the helmet.

    [image=http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080426144857/starwars/images/e/ee/CloneDC15A_swtcwvg.jpg] [image=http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20061003220656/starwars/images/7/7d/EpIIISenateGuard.jpg]

    You made the point earlier that the clones' fin has a purpose for battlefield communications. That really misses the point I was trying to make that the clone armour is not simply plasticised Mando armour. It has other design elements.

    If you look at the lyrics of Vode An, you see that it's all about the clones being the "Wrath of Coruscant" and the "Gauntlet of the Jedi". [face_plain]

    I'm not saying that there's no Mando connection or that Jango Fett is not linked to the Mandalorians in some way. However, whatever Mandos they have their tenuous association with, they certainly aren't the Mandalorians of TCW. We can dismiss what Almec says, but he might just be telling the truth when he says that Fett is not one of them.

    It certainly should not be a strong enough link that the clones feel any loyalty to anything other than the Republic and those who share the Fett genome. At most, they're like people of non-indigenous ancestry in a country's military (eg. European-, African- or Asian-Americans). Loyalty to their own state - the Galactic Republic in this case - is paramount, and they're not "successors" to any currently-existing foreign culture.

    Remember, the clones are faultlessly loyal to the Republic, and the only times in G/T-canon that we see them rebel are when clones are motivated by loyalty beyond the Republic to themselves or their brothers. Really, a supposed loyalty to a Mandalorian cultural identity is not needed.

    It was one of the very worst things about the Republic Commando novels. I sincerely hope that TCW's writers leave that in the dustbin. [face_tired]

    Neither guess was one that I'm willing to defend.

    Interesting idea about Vizsla recruiting outsiders into Death Watch. That could explain why Lux is with them. However, I don't recall it being said that he's inducted into the organisation as a member, only that he seeks their protection. The "Welcome to Death Watch!" line could refer to Lux being welcomed into their Tokugawa-period hideout
  20. Swashbucklingjedi Game Winner

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    That's episode 3 version of senate guard- post-clone design of them.... TPM-guards have no fin but see feathers

    [image=http://lukoagency.free.fr/images/Sebastian%20Dewing/Senate_Guards%5B1%5D.jpg]

    interesting detail- also the helmet was open in TPM.... but "fin" has very different meaning...

    Mandalorians are nearly mythic IU so i find it very odd if clones wouldn't like the idea that they are somehow linked- even if Jango wouldn't be mando really....

    Quoting TCW-Vos "Well that's your opinion man.":p

    what's your guess then? I think it's very probable that they are either DW-guys or bounty hunters....

    No t-canon is confusing c-canon and new t-canon and then gloriously messing up with itself by contradicting both c-canon and previous t-canon:p .... that is how it is now- hopefully T-canon finds answers to it's internal problems, but i hate seeing a good canon thrown in to thrashbin - so as long as something in c-canon doesn't clearly contradict with t-level I consider it canon...
    It may be fanon but so is everything else reasonable solution right now since official canon is mess....

    Some kind of nationalists yes, but their exact ideals are very poorly brought up- they are shallow characters simply "bad guys" against "good" duchess....militarism against pacifism- tradition against new order.... This arc interests me really i wanna see how Viszla introduces his organisation to non-jedi- and how long does it take before Ahsoka reveals herself? And as said it actually looks like that village is not owned by DW but raided by it....

    maybe you can see it better here but his design is based on concept art of mandalorian armor anyway so that conclusion there is wrong- he already shares similarities with mandos whether he is random BH or mando..... he shares more similarities with mandos than TPM-senate guard with clones[face_whistling]

    [image=http://www.starwarsreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/tattooed-rogue-clone.jpg]Unfortunately bad picture:( .... maybe
  21. FarEasterling Jedi Knight

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    And aside from the Mandalorian armour, I would like to see in season 4 at least one more Mandalorian brunette (Jango Fett being the first and the only one to the time). One chestnut haired cadet girl we luckily saw.
  22. Swashbucklingjedi Game Winner

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    there is Siddiq in Corruption as well and Tal Merrick also had dark hair- or at least eyebrows- parade also showed redheaded mandos i believe and i don't get what is this "all mandos are blondes" complaint -they are not -considering the fact that they hardly make any humans, they have had many non-blonde mandos already....
  23. FarEasterling Jedi Knight

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    Wookipedia informs about Siddiq: "Species: human", "Hair color: brown, graying". Yes, original Mandalorans were green goblinish species, but KOTOR videogame presented them fully human, as it happened with the sith before.
    Tal Merrik - "Hair color:Brown, eyes color: green". And in total chestnut hair are not frequent to meet there.
    Governor Viszla in the comics is pictured as a brutal brunette, but see - without any problem he becomes a Nordic blonde in the series who is quite gentle at cocktails shaking.
    So, we have to sit and wait. We need proof Jango Fett is an original Mandaloran and not a stranger who was raised on Mandalore and absorbed Mandoa culture as humans in general did the same millenia ago from Taungs.
  24. Swashbucklingjedi Game Winner

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    ^That guy in comics is Tor Viszla- guy in TCW is Pre Viszla- they are relatives but not same guy- Jango killed Tor Viszla- mandalorians are humans- other species however are known to be adopted to their midsts sometimes- original species from Mandalore was killed long before KOTOR and human settlers became known as mandalorians- parts of the warrior culture may be from original mandalorians though.... Or that is how i think it supposedly went, but you cannot be sure about EU nowadays:p

    Jango is according to EU from Concord Dawn that is one of the Mandalorian worlds- his parents being killed by Tor Viszla and Jango being adopted by supercommandos- even if they change the Concord Dawn i think adoption to supercommandos would remain to explain why he has full mando-armor and skills to fight even jedi- of course he is not "Mandalorian" like people from Mandalore but neither is Satine who is Kalevalan and most of Kalevalans died in civil war according to Obi-Wan- Kalevala of course is one of mandalorian worlds - it might or might not be the world in trailer....
  25. QuangoFett Force Ghost

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    There's still a fin there, albeit with feathers, and I think you missed my point...

    I'm fine with that, as long as the clones don't have any loyalty to anything other than the Galactic Republic. My personal theory/hope is that clones like Rex are impressed by the stories of ancient Mandalorian warriors and adopt some of their trappings - Jaig eyes, war chants, etc. Perhaps Jango Fett introduces some of these to them, being a former Mandalorian mercenary supercommando (of some sort). However, they damn well know that they are not Mandalorian. They're more Kaminoan or Coruscanti than they are Mandalorian, and above all else, they're 100% loyal to the Republic.

    I was simply throwing out suggestions - that Lux might have a connection to the Mandalorians through his father, or that the Rodian and tattooed guy are Separatist-aligned. The latter is also something that strikes me as quite likely.

    I think you're conflating the Mandalorian story in TCW with the less savoury parts of TCW's writing record. The political episodes were badly written as far as internal continuity goes, but the Mandalorian episodes of S2 were not.

    Believe me, this is something they've put a lot of thought into:

    All evidence points to TCW discarding elements of the C-Canon portrayal of PT-era Mandalorians at will.

    And paraphrasing Cmdr. Gree in TCW: "You and I disagree about what makes good canon." :p