Clone Wars Season 5 [[(major spoilers & video clips!!!)]]

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by Coric, Sep 2, 2012.

  1. QuangoFett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 11, 2011
    star 4
    Even though the effective symbol of their movement is a Phase II helmet with a cross through it, I think the "Stop Cloning Violence" sign indicates at least some awareness on the part of the anti-war faction that the clones themselves are not to blame. They're just tools (even fellow victims) whose construction and maintenance are hogging financial resources that should be going towards preventing the population falling into poverty; they're not the conscious oppressors of the people. It's not like the protesters are demanding the downfall of a "Clone Menace".

    The monument could be considered a perfectly valid target of ire, though. The relationship between mainstream society and soldiers over history has been an interesting one. It was commented around the time of the First World War that the problem with a bayonet was that a working man was found on each end. The clones, however, are not "of the people" in the same sense that a volunteer or conscripted army would be. Like the Janissaries of the Ottoman Empire, they're inherently separate from mainstream society. For an anti-war activist on Coruscant, this memorial might be considered commendable for recognising the lives of individual troopers, but it does effectively glorify the "alien" Grand Army, death in combat ("You will be remembered, Captain Gregor...") and the militarisation of the Republic. In Dark Lord, set immediately after ROTS, Palpatine explicitly cites the example of the clone troopers as one for the average citizen to follow. It's not likely that a clone would be opposed to such glorification. Gregor is willingly self-sacrificial after he gets his memories back. Even Fives justifies his insubordination in the name of the Republic. Rex... might actually turn out different, though.

    However, note that they're targeting the Jedi primarily. Like the clones, they're an "alien" element, but somehow they've attracted much more of the blame. According to SW.com, another sign wielded by the protesters claims that the Jedi are corrupt. The Jedi probably get most of the blame for the introduction of the clones and the clones themselves are recognised to be less responsible than others for the war named after them.
    Last edited by QuangoFett, Feb 15, 2013
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  2. Mia Mesharad Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    That's the one thing that bothers me about the idea. Originally, there weren't any monuments or memorials for the clones. They were remembered only by their brothers, or in the case of the commandos, by the training sergeants that instructed them. One of the more moving scenes from the Republic Commando series involved off duty commandos gathering with two of the training sergeants at their barracks on Coruscant, out on the parade ground, reciting the names of the fallen among themselves because they'd get no other tribute from anyone else. Your idea about it being a publicity stunt is an interesting one, and would put the apparent conflict more in the perspective of differing opinions of what constitutes a "proper" memorial.

    As for how they know names instead of numbers...
    Assuming the memorial wasn't erected until some length of time after Geonosis—logical when you consider how long monuments of the sort often take to commission in the real world—then by at least one year into the war, the Null-class ARC troopers had begun to keep a database that cross-referenced official serial numbers with acquired names. I don't recall if it's stated whether or not the database was Republic authorized or something the Nulls did on their own, which I personally find the more likely of the two, but there's at least a collection of names that could be tapped to complete the project.
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  3. Coric Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 19, 2011
    star 4
    The letters are backwards on the wall?

    A lot of the names say: Batt--- (can't make it out)
  4. Spazmatron Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 19, 2012
    star 3
    Ba-Ba-Ba-Battman!!!
  5. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 6
    Thought the Jedi named the clones? ;)
  6. Mia Mesharad Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    They picked up names from all sorts of things and situations. Some, like the ARC trooper Alpha, were named by the Jedi, specifically Anakin in his case. Others chose names based off of their numerical designation, like the army's many Niners, Forrs, Tenns, Fi[ve]s, and Sev[en]s. Several got nicknamed based upon their actions, such as Scorch, who accidentally burned his eyebrows off during a training exercise with too much ordnance, or Hardcase, who's...well...a hardcase. Some, like Atin or Di'kut, were named after Mandalorian words that suited them, while the Null-class ARCs Ordo, Mereel, and Jaing were named after great Mandalorian leaders. Commander Gree chose his name based upon his interest in the ancient Gree species, while the reason Rex chose his name is a matter he elects to keep to himself. Names are even subject to change: ARC trooper Nate—originally named for a corruption of his designation "Nine-Eight"—later decided he wanted to be known as Jangotat, meaning "Jango's Brother" in the Concordian dialect.

    It's really a mixed bag with the clones.
  7. Seerow SWTV★Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2011
    star 6
    I doubt clones like "Not just another number" Fives and my favorite clone Captain Rex would really give much thought to the monument. Rex like a good soldier is just doing his job. He's not about glory, he's about defending his mother Republic from the evil he can't well imagine. He'd honors his fallen brother memories silently by continuing to fight. He certainly wouldn't want to see Waxer's name whose blood may be on his own hand up on any wall either. I'm still interested in seeing what Rex would think about the signs.

    Perhaps there is a pro-war group out there who uses he Clone Trooper's helmet as their symbol and do 'support the troopers' rallies. More seriously, I've wondered if there isn't a mind game going on with using the Clone helmet as a anti-war symbol. Protesters are putting the familiar faces of his/her soldiers right in a Jedi's with a bloody red 'X' over it. Showing him the face of all his soldiers killed in battle while the war drags on. The protesters play on the Jedi's morals. The point of protesting the Jedi has to be to motivate them back into the peace keeper role thinking the war will magically end that way. Folks always seem the think there is a magical fix switch.

    The monument itself with the Clones' names on it may in a twisted way be like putting a retired B-52 on display. I still think its all a publicity stunt likely from misguided patriotism and wasted tax payer dollars, part of Palpatines clever play hind the scenes to cause more civil unrest. There clearly needs to be some real exploration done on what the average Joe thinks when interacting directly with the clones.

    Thus far, nobody in the protest has been shown to go up to a clone and just start picketing him. Interesting how we've seen bigotry from a fallen Jedi but not the regular population who were confronted by a few clones on the steps. They pretty much seem to ignore he clone actually.The angry mob pretty much yells at the temple. Necause it make no sense to protest mere soldiers however if you have direct access to the Jedi, their Generals maybe you can accomplish a little more.

    The monument with names on it is a really dubious touch by the animators that will probably just be a peace on the background or for Ahsoka to look cool standing on. There is a cool ominousness about big phase II clone statues hanging over. IU the thought process was probably something like "Hey, we should build some sort of tribute to the clone troopers. That would look really cool.". A statue is cheap and easy far as ideas go. Perhaps in the end all parties end up pissed off.

    It does make sense that the clone's name would be used on the wall since regular people would relate better to their names than numbers like machinery. That's also the first step making the clone more personal. Where you get people to start caring about the expensive clones more and taking that alien factor away just a little. You get people to genuinely care when they are dying in large numbers either financially or because the toll starts effecting them emotionally. People who haven't known a soldier IRL have a hard enough time sympathizing with them as it is..
    Last edited by Seerow, Feb 15, 2013
  8. Mia Mesharad Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    I always thought this passage from Republic Commando: Triple Zero was particularly poignant in regards to clone-civilian relations:
    Show Spoiler


    Skirata had never used public transport with Ordo in tow before, and the reactions of other passengers fascinated him. They sneaked sideways glances. Ordo's custom holster with its twin blasters probably focused them somewhat. The ARC trooper armor was spectacular even in a city jaded by the everyday presence of a thousand exotic species.

    Skirata regularly forgot how few of the capital's civilians had ever seen a clone soldier face-to-face. Apart from the heavily publicized display of massed GAR battalions boarding assault ships at the military staging area a year ago, the vast majority of Coruscanti had no contact with them whatsoever.

    And never without their helmets.

    "Ord'ika," he whispered. "Do me a favor. Take off your bucket, will you?"

    Ordo paused for a moment and then popped the seal on his collar and lifted off his helmet. Skirata kept an eye on the other passengers' reactions. It was a revelation. Some looked blankly surprised. Others went a little farther.

    "Oh no, they're human!" one man whispered. "And they're so young!"

    Did anyone know how young? He hated using Ordo like this, but it had to be done. Skirata, tired, and permanently irritable, bit back his retort and became a diplomat for a few moments.

    "No sir, the war isn't droids fighting droids," he said. "May I introduce Captain Ordo?"

    Ordo nodded politely at the man in the seat across the aisle and extended his hand; Skirata had taught his little Nulls to act like nice boys when they needed to. The man hesitated and then reached across to shake Ordo's hand, surrendering soft pale civilian fingers to a black gauntlet. The look on his face said clearly that he hadn't expected to find flesh and blood inside the droid-like shell, or to retrieve his hand uncrushed afterward.

    "My pleasure, sir," Ordo said.

    It was unusually quiet in the EasyRide after that. At least the reality had registered on them. Skirata nudged Ordo to get off when they reached the Kragget level, and the ARC replaced his helmet.

    "You like to shock," said Ordo.

    "I like to educate," said Skirata. "Sorry, son."
    That's from the first anniversary of the Battle of Geonosis, one year into the war.

    Many of the Coruscant police like the clones, stemming from the time a commando jumped on a grenade to save the lives of unarmored officers. Others are a bit more wary, with some believing the clones will eventually replace them and they'll be out of work. As time went on, a lot of regular citizens started to get somewhat annoyed with how many of the Coruscant Guard's shocktroopers were patrolling the streets...at least until Grievous' attack on the planet in Revenge of the Sith. Suddenly they were a lot more welcome; gee, I wonder why?
    Last edited by Mia Mesharad, Feb 15, 2013
  9. Legolas Skywalker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 6
    Show Spoiler
    Possibly :p
  10. Coric Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 19, 2011
    star 4
    I'm guessing Asajj is the "jedi" ...
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  11. Paparazzo Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 31, 2011
    star 2
    That's my prediction too, it seems like her style.
  12. Super_Battle_Droid Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2002
    star 5
    It's Barriss, that life is behind Ventress..:p
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  13. Paparazzo Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 31, 2011
    star 2
    [IMG]
  14. Kualan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 4, 2008
    star 4
    I'm convinced Ventress is a red herring. She's very much an anti-hero now, and there are too many loose ends (just *why* would she bomb the Jedi Temple when she's been going on about leaving that side of her life behind her? Why would she frame Ahsoka personally? The question of who told Letta that Ahsoka of all people would help her? Etc)

    I think Ventress won't be responsible, but that we're meant to believe she is - and that Anakin and Ahsoka will initially believe her to be the culprit too for the same reasons lots of viewers will.
  15. Mange Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 11, 2003
    star 4
    That sounds very much like Traviss and if the TCW has shown anything, it's that it doesn't go much by the EU.
  16. Super_Battle_Droid Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2002
    star 5
    It really makes me think it's Barriss, because after framing Ahsoka she helps her escape. Why not just let her stay in prison? It's because Barriss felt bad afterwards since Ahsoka's her friend.
    Last edited by Super_Battle_Droid, Feb 16, 2013
  17. Seerow SWTV★Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2011
    star 6
    That's a cool passage. Thanks for posting it. I would like to see TCW do some of its own exploration of how regular citizens relate to clones with its own main clone characters however.

    As for the new episode...

    I think Ventress is behind this...
  18. Swashbucklingjedi Game Winner

    Game Winner
    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2010
    star 5
    Ventress is probably one behind this- but makes me wonder what she is doing and why?
  19. Seerow SWTV★Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2011
    star 6
    I'm not sure what Ventress's motives are. Really when you think about it, "A Jedi is behind it" may simply refer to someone with a lightsaber. I still don't think the average person like Letta would recognize a red lightsaber means, not a Jedi. When you think of characters who would be able to plant all that stuff, move with absolute stealth, and then force choke Letta (I don't get the impression most Jedi know how to do that). It all points to Ventress. It also seems like the clones and Anakin must be able to identify someone duel wielding by the kinds of lightsaber wounds on the clones. Ventress wields duel sabers. Barriss far as I know has just one.

    Show Spoiler
    Perhaps Barriss is getting used or hired Ventress? I'm not so sure. Actually watching the episode I thought alot of those awkward guilty silences were more from grief than actual guilt.
  20. QuangoFett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 11, 2011
    star 4
    She's a near-human! :_|

    Seriously, though, consider her reaction to knowing that this dude she knew was killed by the explosion. Sure, she might be genuinely mournful that he was killed in this tragedy... or perhaps she feels guilt for being responsible for his death on top of that. Her words about emotions not requiring suppression might indicate her growing unorthodoxy, which motivates her agreement with Letta's faction of anti-Jedi/war/clone activists. She poses the question to Ahsoka about emotions and hears the voice of Anakin in response. She already knows from their discussion in Brian Invaders that Ahsoka is learning the ideology of a militaristic ("amoral" from Barriss' new perspective) thug from Anakin, and she might surmise that Ahsoka is too far gone to be a potential ally. Hence she contacts Letta to get Ahsoka into the prison, resulting in Ahsoka getting framed and also allowing Barriss (who has been hacking the cameras and microphones to know what is being said, also cutting the prison wardens off from them) to silence Letta before she can reveal anything else. Who else is likely to know Ahsoka well enough to know how she'd react to being framed? Beyond the mystery murderer's Force choke and Tarkin's vendetta, Ahsoka's behaviour is what ultimately shreds the trust of everyone but Anakin in her.

    Why else would Lucas/Filoni/Murray put so much focus on Barriss in this episode? It was theorised earlier that Barriss' inclusion was to make clear how everyone has turned against Ahsoka, but the inclusion of Rex already accomplished that to some extent and Plo Koon is going to show up at some point as well.

    Now, I still highly doubt that Barriss is the culprit, but it's an interesting notion. There's the obvious question of why Barriss, if she's somewhat opposed to the suppression of positive emotions and attachment, would be so willing to amorally kill Jedi and Temple workers for a cause. Perverting the course of justice, framing Ahsoka and cold-bloodedly murdering Letta and three clones in the process could be considered far worse than anything a Jedi General has done (Krell aside). Her sadness following the death of the dude she knew appears genuine, even after the camera lingers on her in what might be an indication of treachery. If Barriss is the culprit, she might turn out to be as much of a pawn as Letta.
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  21. Mange Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 11, 2003
    star 4
    As Filoni said at StarWarsBlogs a while back:
    That's pretty much out of the window as far as TCW is concerned.
  22. earlchinna Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 17, 2004
    star 2
    anyone could make the "-leave Ventress alone- crying girl" pic?
    I have the feeling everybody is about to accuse her, too obvious.... and from the previews we spoilers-junkies know that she will help Ahsoka, maybe double-cross her still, but I think she isn't powerful enough and don't have such hate and determination to do all this now...........
    I did feel like Tarkin is not just relying on the holo recordings but is fully involved in this plot...... what a bitch, please God I hope he'll blow on a death star or something one day

    I thought Barriss would just be a cameo ....... but hey now I have to agree to what's been said on these boards, she did look more suspicious than sad hmmm right??
  23. Super_Battle_Droid Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2002
    star 5
    I find it odd that the first Shock troopers were just knocked out and not killed like the others. What does this mean?
  24. Paparazzo Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 31, 2011
    star 2
    1st. It's a boy.

    2.
    Show Spoiler
    [IMG]
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  25. earlchinna Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 17, 2004
    star 2

    haha ooh is it! [face_laugh] if you say so

    works fine!