ST "Secret History of Star Wars" Sequel Info

I just wanted to get this off my chest.

I enjoyed all six Star Wars movies but I will admit the prequels while not as bad as people say were not up to the standard of the original trilogy.

What I do like really like about the prequels is how different the Star Wars universe is and it answers many questions about the original trilogy.

Episode 7 from the trailer it looks like the Galaxy has not moved on or changed at all.

Getting rid of George Lucas story treatments is not a good thing in my opinion.

I

 

I would humbly suggest that folks stop drawing conclusions about maybe 45 seconds of actual footage. There will be new things in this trilogy, as well as old. If you are worried about old ships still in use, for example X-wings and the Millenium Falcon, keep in mind that B-52s and other craft in our military have been in service for over 50 years. Things changed between the prequels and the OT because the empire took over and remade industry in their image.

 

I think trying to apply contarct law school o this is a slippery slope...

 

I care a lot less about the new movies since Lucas' statement and what I am most interested in is if GL's original treatments come out, because that to me is the real story. The ST will be nothing to me but more EU, no more legit to me than the old EU. Neither of them is GL's idea of what happened to Luke, Leia, Han and company.

 

not true really. gl has said sw will go on without him at some point.

 

Yes, but he wrote and sold treatments for the ST to Disney, and they threw them away and have went with a corporate strategy instead. Any inkling of SW as an artistic creation is really over, now it is just another IP, just like Marvel or DC Comics. What made SW unique above anything else was the off-beat things that Lucas would do. Now it will be just another sci-fi IP, IMO. I didn't expect them to stay with his vision forever, but hearing that the ST will not follow his treatments ruins it for me.

 

none of what you just said is true. gl just said they went with something new. we don't know if it's completely new or if it incorporates his ideas. we don't know anything really. they could use some of his outline ideas in the sequels or they could have restructured it. either way it was his choice to sell and have kathleen kennedy handle it. he said he was very confident she would handle it properly.

 

I share the feeling that deviating from Lucas's original vision for the destiny of his characters diminishes my feelings regarding the story that's about to unfold. But with no clear idea of how they're deviating, or what Lucas's original ideas were, I'm not remotely close to dismissing them either.

Weren't we told that JJ was constantly talking with Lucas during his writing process?

I'm not that familiar with EU stuff, but some of the things that always kept me away from reading the novels and things was that I didn't like what the authors were doing with the original characters (according to things that I had been told). Now it seems like JJ could be "just another author" taking his crack at continuing the story, but Lucas's consultation keeps me optimistic.

Also, the rumors about where Luke and Leia are at the beginning of TFA seem to line up with the "bittersweet and poignant" ending that Gary Kurtz had pushed for in preproduction of RotJ.

 

i also don't think the old cast, especially ford, would come back if they didn't think it was worth it.

 

I'm wondering what the definition of "artistic creation" is in this context.

Lucas himself went with "corporate strategy" when he made choices about his story based on the potential for toy sales.

The underlying assumption in your claim is that Lucas's vision = "art," and Anyone else's vision = commerce, or, "just another IP."

Disney and the minds behind the purchase of Lucasfilm aren't naive or unaware about the distinct qualities that make Star Wars unique among the vast spectrum of science fiction and fantasy stories. Considering my satisfaction with Rebels relative to The Clone Wars, I am confident that this isn't "just another IP." It's also worth noting that Kennedy has a long-standing history with Lucas.

Basically, I'm not yet at the point where I can justify too cynical or extreme of a conclusion about the integrity of the forthcoming films.

 

PPOR

 

http://www.avclub.com/article/gary-kurtz-outlines-original-darker-ewok-less-endi-44162


“We had an outline and George changed everything in it," Kurtz said. “Instead of bittersweet and poignant he wanted a euphoric ending with everybody happy. The original idea was that they would recover [the kidnapped] Han Solo in the early part of the story and that he would then die in the middle part of the film in a raid on an Imperial base. George then decided he didn’t want any of the principals killed. By that time there were really big toy sales and that was a reason.”
The discussed ending of the film that Kurtz favored presented the rebel forces in tatters, Leia grappling with her new duties as queen and Luke walking off alone “like Clint Eastwood in the spaghetti westerns,” as Kurtz put it.

 

Based off the look of the new trailer I would say that is definitely the case.

 

That doesn't show proof of anything but Lucas opting for a lighter tale. Something he has said came from being a new father.

 

No, it demonstrates that Lucas decided not to kill one of the principal characters as originally intended because "really big" toy sales were at stake.

And also from Kurtz:

“I could see where things were headed,” Kurtz said. “The toy business began to drive the [Lucasfilm] empire. It’s a shame. They make three times as much on toys as they do on films. It’s natural to make decisions that protect the toy business, but that’s not the best thing for making quality films.”

http://herocomplex.latimes.com/movi...2-filmmakers-george-lucas-and-gary-kurtz-wer/

 

Sour grapes me thinks with a sprinkle of merchandising.

 

It's pretty hard to judge the ST as aping the OT when all we've seen is about 30 seconds of footage. There's a whole lot that we don't know about yet, so let's wait for the next trailer before we really start getting into this argument.

 

Didn't we just leave this party? I thought I was reading that locked thread for a few minutes.

 

I could imagine that there would be some bitterness or whatever, but at the same time, Lucas's emphasis on merchandising seems to be one of the primary factors in their split. It's the thing that soured the grapes in the first place.

 

Let's get one thing straight about toy sales. Lucas used the merchandising for the films for one reason and one reason only, so that he could be independent of the Hollywood system. The vast majority of what he made from box office returns and merchandising sales went back into his films and his companies. The five films he made after ANH, were almost all funded from his own fortune from what he made off ANH. ANH funded TESB and TESB funded ROTJ. Only a portion of the budget for TESB came from the studio due to Kurtz's mismanaging funds which lead to his being fired. And by mismanage, I mean, he let the budget get out of control. Then after building up his fortune during the rest of the 80's and 90's he funded all three PT films in the same manner as he did with TESB and ROTJ. He even said that if TPM didn't do well, he wouldn't make AOTC and ROTS since it came from his own back pocket. That's why he fought for the merchandising rights, so that he could fund additional films if the first film tanked or under performed.

When it comes to his decisions within the films itself, he does it for the art. He makes the films for himself as the main audience.

 

Whether or not Kurtz "mismanaged funds," and no matter what Lucas did with the money he made from the merchandise, you're not really contradicting my point, you're merely providing a justification for it, which really doesn't have anything to do with what I'm talking about.

My assertion wasn't to condemn Lucas's choice, but merely to demonstrate to an earlier participant in this conversation that Lucas himself had made story choices based on commercial factors. So as long as we're "getting things straight," let's take a little more time to contemplate what we all mean.

And also, it's not really that he "fought" for the rights, but rather he was smart enough to see the potential for merchandising at a time when studios weren't "juicing the sweetest plum," as Krusty might say. From a business standpoint, I don't think anyone can ever criticize Lucas's career and the risks he took.

 

And Anthony Daniels (who's 100% Camp Lucas) has said that TFA is even better than ESB.

 

Truth be told that would have suuucked to kill Han in the middle of ROTJ, especially after the years long build up between movies to the big rescue. Kurtz acts like somehow that's a superior version when really it's not, every kid would have hated it me included. Reminds me of Alien 3 where they spent a whole movie barely escaping in Aliens only to kill everyone in the fist 5 minutes god that was awful hah. Also what would Leia be queen of?

 

Please stop peddling mistruths on this matter. Lucas' treatments were not thrown out & ignored. Yes a rewrite occurred so no doubt there were changes. This has led Lucas to declare it is "not what he wrote". But this from Simon Kinberg last July confirms that they still very much used his outline:

Full of Sith: "How much of Lucas' blueprint do you rely on or is it even in play anymore?"

Kinberg: "It's definitely a part of the planning of all the different movies and it was something that I was exposed to from the beginning of the process."

Source: http://bigshinyrobot.com/58402/disney-still-using-lucass-star-wars-ideas/

Kinberg came on board as EpVII story consultant after the commencement of the rewrite. Therefore we can take this as proof that Lucas' treatment wasn't torn up & thrown in the bin following the Arndt draft. Indeed it was part of the planning for the movies including EpVII, which means the planning during the rewrite phase bcs that's where Kinberg became involved.

So what does this all mean? It means that we need far more information to make a judgement on this issue. Clearly they did change the story from what Lucas outlined. We knew that a year ago. Clearly also they still used his story outline so we can assume that it will be present to some degree in the finished movie. Lucas may be the type who believes that any significant change to his story means that "it's not his story". He has also said that since the decision to do a rewrite he hasn't been involved & is in the dark about what the film will be about. So he may be surprised to find that more of his ideas were retained than he currently thinks.

The other thing he said last week which received far less press attention was that he has now seen the teaser. He said it looked "great" & "intriguing". So unlike yourself it seems George is very much looking fwd to seeing the movie. Far from ruining it for him he said he's looking fwd to sitting down as a fan & enjoying the experience. Hopefully before December you can get back on board along with George & the rest of us.