Seiously, what was so BAD about Padme?

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by jewlmc, Aug 15, 2002.

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  1. bassethound Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2002
    star 1
    O-kay..let's see...

    Does it have to be coming from summer movie? I like Dolores Claiborne. Now, that is what I call character development. I am surprised it didn't win any Oscar nomination.

    And of course, if it has to come from summer ones, I liked Ya Ya sisterhood... ( I am hearing groans from the guys, LOL :)
  2. SHAD0W-JEDI Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    star 3

    I think one reason this thread so often veers towards a discussion of Ms Portman, as opposed to PADME, is that in discussing the SW films, there is a LOT of speculation concerning how much of what appears on screen is the result of GL's conscious intent, and how much is the result of actors, chance, etc. In other words...if you find Padme to seem a bit emotionally flat, monotone, or what have you (and I am not saying that is a universally held view!), then you are left to wonder if that is the result of Ms Portman's acting abilities/choices, or if that is because of GL's directorial/authorial (? - *L*) vision. This theme comes up in a LOT of threads, with some reading deep hidden meaning and intent into all sorts of subtle elements, basically crediting GL with an incredibly rich backstory and eye for detail... and others wondering if maybe there isn't, at times, LESS than meets the eye...

    Personally, I did not find the romance all that convincing, and still don't, although I can rationalize Padme's having a seeming schoolgirl crush on a petulant (if handsome and brave!) "boy" as a case of a very smart woman making some astonishingly BAD choices, but...

    I think that Padme, for what is probably meant to be the best of reasons, is in fact feeding elements of Anakin's personality that increase his vulnerability to Palpatine, and increase the risk of catastrophic events which will/could lead to his fall.

    First off, she is his accomplice in at least two MAJOR acts of self-serving deception that are VERY troubling. It is she who refuses to MAKE Anakin choose between having her, her love, and his career in the Jedi. The primary responsibility for this is Anakin's, no doubt, but she abets him. It may be hard to leave the Jedi, it may come at the price of friendships, disgrace, etc (we are left to speculate) but it is not impossible, and Padme does not make Anakin confront that choice, she does not require him to be honest with himself, with Obi-Wan, with the Jedi, or to (to use an old-fashioned term!) make an "honest woman out of her". Yes, she marries him, but she is more akin to a mistress than a wife; the "other woman" here is the Jedi order, to whom Anakin has sworn certain deep allegiances.

    Similarly, as regards the Tusken slaughter, Padme apparently chooses to keep Anakin's secret here, even when that secret is murder, the killing of women and children. This is no small thing, and shouldn't be too quickly brushed aside. Sympathy is one thing, but to become a tacit accomplice is quite another. Worse yet, Anakin's acts have to be judged in the context of his Jedi-training... he snaps, succumbs to hate and vengeance and murder EVEN AFTER TEN YEARS OF TRAINING IN CONTROLLING HIS EMOTIONS. And yet...Padme apparently decides to keep quiet about this (so far as we can see, by the end of AOTC).

    These are two major instances of fundamental dishonesty, playing right into Anakin's willful desire to do things all his way, to control, to set the agenda...and to give in to violent impulses. Even without knowing that Anakin ends up at Darth Vader, you have to question the wisdom of this kind of "support".

    Padme also playfully seems to encourage Anakin's willfullness in other ways, suggesting they go to Obi-Wan, etc. Smaller indiscretions than the one's above, clearly, but still... in Padme, Anakin seems to have found a woman who will encourage a series of traits that will plainly bring him in conflict with the Jedi in a BIG way.

    AND... I really do have to wonder why Padme..or SOMEONE on Naboo...did not get Shmi out of slavery and into a comfortable lifestyle somewhere, between TPM and AOTC. I mean, all this kid did was save the whole @#%%@ PLANET from invasion! Would buying Watto out have been too much to ask? Frankly, I see this more as an indictment of GL's script than Padme's character, but...

    SO... while I hold Anakin responsible for HIS choices, his actions, I do think that Padme shows a disappointing variance from the courageous, moral character she was made out to be in TPM, and I think it legitimate t
  3. Obis-Grl Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 4
    bassethound:

    I agree, now Ya Ya Sisterhood was a great example of a wonderful summer movie for woman with an excellent cast of actresses.
  4. Ekenobi Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Apr 4, 2002
    star 4
    I agree with Darth-Schwartz. If you want a teary eyed love story Titanic is available at your local video store. Portman portayed Padme fine. I just saw it for my 5th time and I did not find anything wrong with her.
  5. Ben-Obi-Wan-Kenobi Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 28, 1999
    star 3
    Question :
    "Seriously, what was so BAD about Padme?"
    Answer:
    Wrong Actress !

  6. Obis-Grl Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 4
    Ben-Obi-Wan-Kenobi:

    "Seriously, what was so BAD about Padme?"
    Answer:
    Wrong Actress !


    Excellent answer buddy!
  7. forever_jedi Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 5, 2002
    star 5
    SHADOW-JEDI,
    Very well-put, indeed. I feel the same way, that Padme's character underwent a down-turn in AOTC compared to TPM. I believe there will be an upturn in EIII again, as she makes the difficult, sad but right choices. You are absolutely right, she is an "enabler". It is not a coincidence that GL decided to make her 5 years OLDER than Anakin - this, together with her behavior in AOTC, squarely puts part of the blame for his FALL on her.

    In this context, it is quite striking to cmpare the two women that Anakin loved and who loved him. Shmi, a slave, has nothing in the world, except him. Yet, she is the "good mother" in TPM, letting him, indeed HELPING him, to leave her and his old life so that he has a bright future. She has only him and she gives him up. Padme, in AOTC, is the "bad mother", who inspite of having beauty, brains, wealth, power in unlimited quantities, cannot make the sacrifice of denying her feelings and doing the right thing by discouraging his feelings. She has grown up knowing about the Jedi, and their code. She has been helped by them - she knows what Anakin's duties are. Yet she does not help him make the right choices. What she shows for Anakin can be construed as compassion by some, but it is the same sort of compassion that Palpatine provides "I see you becoming greatest.....". In other words, aiding and abetting his darker qualities.
  8. Maverick1115 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 22, 2002
    star 3
    It's funny to me that everyone wants to wreck on Portman, yet she is the one making millions. Complain all you want guys and gals, nothing is going to change, obviously somebody likes her and in addition I am sure none of you complaining would give a performance anywhere close to hers. Give it a rest. All of you speak as if you are specialists in the acting business.
  9. Red-Talon Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 12, 2002
    star 3
    obviously somebody likes her and in addition

    Well its certainly not the critics ;)

    I am sure none of you complaining would give a performance anywhere close to hers.

    While that may be true, I never took acting classes, I never have acted since a 5th grade school play, and as you said, I'm not making millions. That's the difference, son. Natalie is getting paid money to do her job, she's expected to do it well.

    Give it a rest. All of you speak as if you are specialists in the acting business.

    Well, I really have no idea what you mean by "specialists in the acting business", but anyway, as a fan of Star Wars, and a frequent movie goer I can tell the difference between good and bad acting, I might not be a critic, but I still have opinions, as do most fans.
  10. Maverick1115 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 22, 2002
    star 3
    Red-Talon:

    I am not trying to say anything bad about anyone. I just kind of find it hard to take in someone's bashing about somebody who has done what Portman has done. I guess I am just tired of hearing everyone complain and complain and complain. Don't go watch Star Wars if it upsets you that much. I am not saying Portman put on an Academy Award winning performance, but enough is enough. Give it a rest, complaining day in and day out won't do anything. Like I said, it wasn't a stellar performance, but what can you do? Nothing.

    And when I said somebody liked her you came back with the smart remark..."well it's certainly not the critics." Well, obviously George doesn't care what the critics think. Further, the critics always like the stupid and boring movies like "The English Patient," personally I couldn't stand it. I never agree with the critics.

    EDIT:

    Since it seems to be hard knowledge to interpret "specialists in the acting business." Maybe I should have said that everyone seems to be experts in regards to what good and bad acting is. Opinions are great, but I just see an awful lot of complaints and I just get sick of them I guess. Overall it was a very good movie.
  11. BIG_BEN Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2002
    star 3
    For the most part, Portman didn't do an absolutely horrible job. Most of it was passable. Having said that, even as a rank amateur, I could've acted the recovery from the fall out of the clone gunship better than she did. Even she is not completely to blame for that though, GL should've made her redo it.
  12. Obis-Grl Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 4
    Red-Talon: Another great post buddy!

    Maverick1115:

    I don't think their is anything wrong with me putting high expectations for Ms. Portman to perform well. I mean I know she is a good actress and she really disappointed me in AOTC. So why is it so wrong for me to express how I feel and defend my opinion? Cause it happens to be different from yours?






  13. Pooja Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2002
    star 6
    [image=http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/211f178b/bc/Other/DOOKUPUFFS.jpg?bc47kk9AWt2LM0Do]

    COUNT DOOKULA SEZ:
    Padme be cool.
    :)
  14. Red-Talon Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 12, 2002
    star 3
    Don't go watch Star Wars if it upsets you that much.

    It doesn't upset me. ;) Infact Natalie was when of my few AOTC complaints, overall I loved the movie.

    And Obis-Grl, once again we agree, yes, Natalie isn't too bad of an actress (not very good either, mediocre), and she has had much better performances outside of Star Wars
  15. Anakin_Skywalker20 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 16, 2000
    star 5
    this thread... is mean... thank you to whoever created this thead... :mad: *flees*
  16. RangerPrincess Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jun 23, 2002
    star 4

    *looks at AnakinSkywalker20 as he flees*
    Sadly, his name explains it all. :p

    Padmé, so many things to say about her.

    Fearless
    Leader
    Loving
    Got a chance to kiss HC, which is so not *right* :mad:
  17. Maverick1115 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 22, 2002
    star 3
    Okay Obis-Girl and Red-Talon:

    I didn't come on here to argue about opinions. Yours is just as good as mine. I just get sick of seeing people complain, especially when you can't do anything about it. Having expectations is fine, I never said that was wrong. Like I said, I just get frustrated that people always have to gripe about something, nothing is ever perfect that's all. I am not wanting to start a debate over it. I guess after reading the dumbest theory I have ever seen posted by Homeless Jedi I was a little on edge when I read complaints. My apologies.
  18. jewlmc Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 1999
    star 4
    Hey Anakin Skywalker20....

    If you would have read CAREFULLY you would have seen that the creator of this thread(me) didn't think Padme was bad, just wondered why other people did.
  19. Anakin_Skywalker20 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 16, 2000
    star 5
    okay okay... im not mad at you jewlmc...no offence... but... this thread... is really... harsh... and this will be my last post in this thread. good bye. *flees*
  20. Obis-Grl Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 4
    Maverick1115:

    I didn't come on here to argue about opinions. Yours is just as good as mine. I just get sick of seeing people complain, especially when you can't do anything about it. Having expectations is fine, I never said that was wrong. Like I said, I just get frustrated that people always have to gripe about something, nothing is ever perfect that's all. I am not wanting to start a debate over it. I guess after reading the dumbest theory I have ever seen posted by Homeless Jedi I was a little on edge when I read complaints. My apologies.

    It's fine Maverick1115. And I am sorry too. I know that I can be very touchy when it comes to my opinion. :)

    But just out of curiosity what was Homeless Jedi's theory?

    Obis-Grl
  21. SHAD0W-JEDI Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    star 3

    Forever-Jedi, I think your comparison of Padme and Shmi is a great one; I think Shmi really is a wonderful example of why the Jedi are cautious re attachments. It is a rare person who can accept the good and bad, who can know that there comes a time when anything you own, or any person in your life, will "leave you", in one way or another. It is how life works. She is a remarkable contrast to Anakin himself, who rages against the "injustices" of life, and seeks increasing control..and ends up falling to the Dark Side.

    Padme IS, in AOTC, VERY self-indulgent, as you observed. Shmi, who has nothing, has an easier time giving up her most prized "possession", her son, than Padme does in making some simple sacrifices in AOTC (again, how about simply telling Anakin to choose - her, or the Jedi?)...*S*

    You raised some great points!

    Shadow
  22. DANA28 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jan 15, 2002
    star 4
    I adore Natalie Portman and her character. Her acting ability is beyond most and I've read that she was told by George to tone Padme down. GL knows what he's doing give him a chance.
  23. The_Abstract Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 16, 2002
    star 4
    Critique this Padme Bashers! Taken from the Official Site:

    No longer the teenage Queen of Naboo, Padmé Amidala takes on a new role in Attack of the Clones. It's been 10 years since the events of The Phantom Menace, and the beautiful and beloved leader has moved on to representing her people in the Senate, taking the seat formerly held by now-Chancellor Palpatine. She's as fierce and determined as ever, but the childlike sense of wonder she felt when hiding on Tatooine has given way to a focused awareness and sense of purpose. Like the actress who plays her, Padmé Amidala is all grown up.
    Natalie Portman, who turns 21 this summer, was 15 when she started work on her first Star Wars movie. Since then, she's spent the past three years studying at an Ivy League university, starred in the movies Anywhere But Here and Where the Heart Is, performed with Meryl Streep and Kevin Kline in Chekov's The Seagull at New York's Public Theater, and adorned the covers of numerous magazines, becoming recognized the world over as one of America's finest young actresses. For her next film, the dark comedy The Bride Wore Black, Portman begins making the transition into more mature roles.

    Indeed, Portman said that her biggest challenge for Episode II was making Padmé seem 10 years older than she was in Episode I, even though Natalie herself had aged only three years. "George told me that the struggle for this one is to make me seem older," Portman said. "He's been working with me on that. He wants to make sure I seem older than Anakin, so it's believable that I can be bossing him around, and he's a little intimidated. She looks at him as a little boy--at least for the first half of the film."

    It's in the second half the film that Anakin's return to her life stirs feelings in Padmé that prove hard to ignore. "There's a scene where Anakin and I are finishing dinner, and he uses his Jedi powers to make the fruit fly, which scares me a little, but it turns into a flirting tactic," she recalled. "I don't think George was satisfied with the dialogue he had written, because he told Hayden and me to just improvise--which was amusing, because it got inappropriate very quickly. It was a fun scene to shoot, although we felt pretty stupid biting fruit which didn't exist out of the air."

    Besides the budding romance, it's clear that Padmé is an adult by her clothing. Known for bold fashion and hairstyle choices (as was her future daughter Princess Leia, she of the metal bikini fame), Padmé's 19 outfits made for Attack of the Clones include some a bit sexier than the young Queen would ever have worn.

    "There's one we call the leather-and-lace outfit," Natalie said, "which is for when Anakin and I have dinner for the first time. It's this very tight corset, with these gloves, and it's beautiful. There are a lot of corsets that are very tight, which I'm sure everyone will notice. I didn't really believe it until I wore it. That's what's different about the costumes in Episode II as opposed to Episode I--whereas Episode I was queenly, it was still made for a young girl. Now I'm supposed to be a woman, so we've got a lot of midriff, and a lot of tight corsets."

    While appearing older was a major concern for Episode II, Portman said the situation had been exactly the opposite the first time around. "George told me his biggest struggle with Amidala was to make it believable that a 14-year-old would be Queen," she said. "No one could doubt she could be Queen, so we worked a lot on voice and posture, all the movement and facial expressions, to make it very stern. Even though it's already more acceptable just because it's part of the Star Wars universe, I think it was a little less questioned because of all the stuff we worked on."
    Portman's performance was a success partly because the actress has always brought to her roles a certain maturity that seemed beyond her years, beginning with her widely acclaimed debut in The Professional (also known as Léon), which she made at the age of 12 after being discovered in a Manhattan pizza parlor by
  24. Ben-Obi-Wan-Kenobi Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 28, 1999
    star 3
    Whatever!
    I dont like Portman .
  25. bassethound Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2002
    star 1
    The Abstract: "Taken from the Official Site"

    :D I think I had argued a couple times that those came out from official site, is of course can be bias.

    Now, since you post the "official site", can I post some critical review on Ms Portman's appearance? :)

    PS: I overheard the bashing on " those who dished Portman are 16 year old girls" from you. I can assure you, that I am not 16. On the other hand, can I say that those who "love" her are 20 something year old males? :D
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