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Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by Imrahil, Aug 12, 2002.

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  1. farraday

    farraday Jedi Knight star 7

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    Latin! Very true.

    Personally I'm not looking forward to dying for my country no matter how sweet.

    It will take a special set of cirumstanes to start drafting troops again.

    Personally I wouldn't mind women having to face the draft as well. Probably because it would lessen my chances....
     
  2. gwaernardel

    gwaernardel Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 5, 2001
    Personally, I wouldn't want to die for my country. I wouldn't go out and volunteer to do it. But, if I were asked to, I would. I think it's pretty selfish to say that a country shouldn't ask its members to fight for it. If you live in this country, you enjoy the security and convenience that you have from living here. You don't have to hunt for your food every morning. You have a place to sleep at night. You can sit on your ass and watch TV all day if you want to. People in other parts of the world can't say that. So I hope that I would be able to fight for my country if I were asked to.
     
  3. Saint_of_Killers

    Saint_of_Killers Jedi Youngling star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    You know what's weird?

    Just as I opened this thread, One by Metallica came up on the playlist.

    That's what's weird.
     
  4. Maveric

    Maveric Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 17, 1999
    Aren't your odds of being drafted much lower if you're in college? I remember my dad talking about is "low lottery numbers", reffering to the fact that the chances of him being drafted were almost zero. That was back in the late 60's. What I'm trying to say is that if there were a draft on right now, and you're 18-25, you wouldn't neccessarily be drafted.

    What did Clinton do to "dodge" the draft. I've heard that mentioned before.


    During Viet Nam, if you were in college, or a an academic, you were less likely to get drafted. Got to keep the intelligentsia alive.

    Clinton fled the country instead of serving. There was even some talk that he protested the war on Russian soil.
     
  5. Rebecca191

    Rebecca191 Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 2, 1999
    Personally I wouldn't mind women having to face the draft as well. Probably because it would lessen my chances....

    Bad idea to draft women. On average, they are weaker. Also, what about women with young children? Not to mention any woman who didn't want to serve could just get pregnant.
     
  6. Maveric

    Maveric Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 17, 1999
    How is taking a mother away from her children worse than taking a father away? During the summer, I am the primary care giver to my three children as it is my summer vacation while my wife works. Does that mean my relationship with my children is less than that bond held by wife with her children? The idea that women are the only caregivers is as outdated as it is sexist. Women for the past fifty years have been screaming for equal rights and that the differences between men and women are purely cosmetic. Now, when it comes time to go to war we shouldn't send women because they are naturally weaker? It doesn't take much strength to push a button on guided missile cruiser to blow someone to Hades or to pull a trigger on a sniper rifle.
     
  7. Rebecca191

    Rebecca191 Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 2, 1999
    If they're already taking the fathers away to fight, then they can't take the mothers, too. It's not just firing a gun, anyway. It's being able to survive under very primitive and dangerous living conditions.
     
  8. gwaernardel

    gwaernardel Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Nov 5, 2001
    I think women should be included in the draft. And I don't see why you can't just take away one or the other. If the father is already gone, I doubt the government would send the mother to go and fight. The same goes for if the mother gets drafted first. Either way, married men have lower lottery numbers than single ones do anyway, so the chance of a father getting dragged away from his newborns is not really that high anyway.
     
  9. Maveric

    Maveric Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 17, 1999
    The reason my father did not go to Nam was due to the impending birth of my sister.
     
  10. Rebecca191

    Rebecca191 Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 2, 1999
    It would be too easy for women to avoid the draft, if they really didn't want to go, they would just get pregnant. I am against the draft for anyone but I think women more, they are definitley physically weaker, it's how nature made them.
     
  11. gwaernardel

    gwaernardel Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Nov 5, 2001
    They can all be nurses then. They were made to be nurturers, they'd be good at it.
     
  12. Rebecca191

    Rebecca191 Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 2, 1999
    As long as you are in the army though, don't you still have to go through basic training, even in a non-combat position?
     
  13. stevo

    stevo Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 14, 2001
    Or they can be technicians . . . that doesn't take much strength.
     
  14. Maveric

    Maveric Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 17, 1999
    everybody goes through basic training. And women get pregnant in the military to keep from doing strenuous work. Some also provide other "services" for a nominal fee to their fellow naval men on those long sea voyages. No lie, my brother in law was in the Navy and had been propositioned several times. I never asked him what he did, that is between him and his wife.
     
  15. gwaernardel

    gwaernardel Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 5, 2001
    Basic training doesn't kill you. Millions of people (men and women) have gone through it and come out alive. It's not that bad. I hear it's really not much worse than training for a sport in school, it's just all condensed into a short period of time.
     
  16. Maveric

    Maveric Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 17, 1999
    And from what I hear, the belittling you see done by drill sergeants on TV and in movies is no longer allowed.
     
  17. Rebecca191

    Rebecca191 Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 2, 1999
    I still wouldn't make it through it. I barely survived gym.
     
  18. gwaernardel

    gwaernardel Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Nov 5, 2001
    Then you most likely woulnd't pass the physical exam and would be considered unfit for the military.
     
  19. Rebecca191

    Rebecca191 Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 2, 1999
    But why should I have to go through it in the first place? Why should anyone?
     
  20. gwaernardel

    gwaernardel Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 5, 2001
    Cut-and-pasted from my above post:

    I think it's pretty selfish to say that a country shouldn't ask its members to fight for it. If you live in this country, you enjoy the security and convenience that you have from living here. You don't have to hunt for your food every morning. You have a place to sleep at night. You can sit on your ass and watch TV all day if you want to. People in other parts of the world can't say that. So I hope that I would be able to fight for my country if I were asked to.
     
  21. Rebecca191

    Rebecca191 Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 2, 1999
    I don't believe any government has the right to force people to fight for it, regardless of the freedoms they enjoy. One of those freedoms should be the choice to not be in the millitary.
     
  22. gwaernardel

    gwaernardel Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 5, 2001
    But what about a situation where everyone that had volunteered for the military was already fighting, or dead? That's really why the draft is there. At some point, if a war gets big enough, everyone that has volunteered is gone. And then what? Since the government shouldn't force anyone to fight for it, everyone can just go back to their sitting and watching TV and reading the gossip column and painting their nails while our country gets invaded? No, because we need a defense force.
     
  23. Terr_Mys

    Terr_Mys Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
    I don't necessarily think that I'd die for my country, but I would certainly be willing to fight for democracy in general. I'm not too fit, either, but I'd be willing to sacrifice a mere few weeks for basic training and then operate in a communications position. Either way, I don't think the government should force people to join the military, but if it became absolutely necessary, then I don't think people should choose not to defend the democracy which gives them the right to not join the military in the first place.
     
  24. Ramius

    Ramius Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Jun 8, 2002
    If there was a draft, and I had high lotto numbers, I would just join the Coast Guard, Navy, or Air Force, all of which aren't exactly grueling, life-threatening jobs, and I could still serve my country.

    Bad idea to draft women. On average, they are weaker.

    Because of thier build, women are actually better suited to be fighter pilots, because the average woman's body can handle high G's better than a man.
     
  25. Lieutenant Tschel

    Lieutenant Tschel Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Nov 7, 1999
    Exactly. People have this conception that the military is nothing but infantrymen running around shoooting and goring eachother with bayonets, wrestling over pistols and knives in mudholes.

    There are plenty of jobs women could perform in which their body construction would not interfere with efficiency.

    Also, in the military one of your largest concerns is NOT dying for your country. You do everything you possibly can to stay alive. The dying part is a possibility due to the inherent dangers of the job, but not by any means a guaranteed outcome.
     
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