JCC [Senate?] Do you like serious discussion, but not having to go to another subforum for it?

you're not pressing very hard

 

The actual point of the Senate beyond what it has become or what it became, is a place for serious discussion. Super serious political and religious discussion. The point of the YJCC and Amph, Arena, etc. is for more lighthearted topics. I don't really understand how this argument has become so twisted that we're moving past that original purpose. It doesn't matter if 6 people post in there or 600 - the point is that the topics are completely different. Subjects like politics and religion and other touchy/argumentative things are not for every setting. If you have regular lighthearted JCers joining in a debate on a controversial religious subject, combined with those trying to take it seriously, combined with hardcore trolls and those who can't tell what baiting is, and stupid people, and close minded or open minded...well you get the problems that you run into in real life. At the end of the day expecting the YJCC to adopt the actual purposes of the Senate is an ideal. Theoretically it should work, it could work, but it never will because people are idiots and you can't possibly expect everyone to behave the way they're meant to, and you can't expect people to ignore it or the mods to always be there to clean up the giant mess that's going to be made.

 

Got it!

 

Am glad you made this point.

 

I do what I can, Ender.

jp-30 I can only imagine how long you've waited for the right/perfect context in order to post that picture.

 

is superwatto the one going crazy with the proverbial authoritarian cheez-whiz over there now? i havent been paying attention. i kind of assumed darthboba would be the one to watch out for, given the military mindset

 

ive embedded a beck reference in the above post in order to test if juliet auto-likes any and all post with any sort of popular musical references

 

For some reason I thought he'd stepped down. Oh well.

 

I'll support the unification if the Senate helps me get an arcade for the JCC. While you're debating Muslims, we'll be playing Checkers, Othello, Mahjong, and starting Frogger tournaments.

 

can we just like forceably annex and then dissolve the senate entirely? is that a Thing?

 

I'm sure the functionality is embedded somewhere in the ModSquad control panel. With any luck the activation code is 000000000.

 

Eh, not actually a fan of Beck (I think there maybe like, one song him that I like?), so I didn't even realize your previous post was a reference to beck until you mentioned it.

 

The Senate is fine where it is now.

 

Oh, well, you heard the man guys. Pack it up. It's over.

 

It is.

 

What do you hope to achieve by this anyway? As you have yourselves pointed to with excellent examples, the JCC can produce great and thoughtful discussions on its own. The only thing that would change would be that now whenever someone wants to discuss something serious on the JCC, they'll have to label it with the Senate tag. A cosmetic and empty update to something that already works. In other words, you gain nothing. While those of us who use the Senate lose something we like. That's it. Seems pretty pointless to me.

 

You seem to have forgotten the way my memory works.

 

but think of the efficiency! i mean in mod/man hours alone, that's like 30 extra hours a week that darthboba can put into materially advancing the cause of capitalist-imperial hegemony and 30 extra hours a week superwatto can use for crafting cuckoo clocks or whatever it is danish people do

its the only decision that makes any sense

 

We've already cited specific merger-era threads as an example of the special synergies that exist only when the Senate and JCC are combined. This is not theoretical. It is not fanciful. We know it exists, because we have all seen it in action. The physical record of these threads' existence is still with us. The deficiencies of the present set-up are equally real and obvious. If anything seems uncertain or indefinite, it is the explanation for why a forum should exist when, in practice, your own admission is that it's not really different in its rules than the JCC.

 

Ender, wocky, why are you bothering? All of the threads around this subject previously have shown that logic is not welcomed as part of the discussion, and that despite the highly vaunted rules of the Senate being about discussing the issue and not making an argument about the person saying it, it has always degraded to that because there are no other grounds to make a case for why the decision was made to split things. At some point in time, you just need to accept that it isn't worth making a case for something when nobody is actually going to listen and sit down at the table like adults to do the job that they were hired for (yes, mods are volunteers but they are still 'employed' to do a 'job'). And I'm advocating walking away from the discussion as someone that will usually make an argument on the principle of the matter.

At the end of the day, those arguing for the Senate to remain split are after their own enclave to post in away from everyone else. And instead of making a decision that was in the best interests of the boards as a whole the MS acquiesced in order to not tick off a grand total of 10 users. If it has not already been made abundantly clear by the lack of any meaningful moderating team interaction in any of the three threads on this subject, the issue is going to be left to bubble up for a few days until people get tired of talking to thin air and then go away so that nothing is required to be done. So save yourself the grief and energy of responding when those who should be doing something cannot be bothered.

 

Hasn't the Senate always been a ****hole? Let it die the death it deserves and the one it needs right now.

 

Serious question: independently of the Senate existing as a "hardcore" debate forum, would it be worth it adding a, dunno, "Debate" tag to the Community forum following rules similar to the ones Ender outlined in Comms?

 

Lol, Dingo's debating methods of simply implying the other side is a bunch of illogical buffoons and citing MS laziness is a cop out move I use all the time. You know this debate is really going no where when he's got to go that low.

Anyways the reason why things are the way they are is the same as the last TWO times this argument happened. You guys have got some mediocre points but they're all based in idealism and also you can't really back up your opinions very well. I mean do you honestly think that a 6 page thread full of sarcasm and derp herp jokes is going to make MS take your opinion seriously? You've got a few good points in here but no one is actually genuinely supporting the idea with logic, and by logic I mean addressing the sides of the opposing opinion. "I have an opposing view that I think makes more sense" and "This is more logical to me" are not valid arguments. Maybe if you argued this in the actual thread that exists for it that Dani linked, and left out all the sarcastic joking and filler posts, you'd have a solid point but right now....weak. WEAK.

 

I think the Senate would thrive in the Fanfic forums.

 

I like this suggestion. I think it's a good compromise. It doesn't necessarily mean that all senate regulars will want to take part in it, but who cares about the weirdos.

 

Again, I get down to: what's the point?

If Wocky and Ender (et al) were okay with the way the Trayvon Martin thread went -- tagged JCC -- then why the need for a new tag? JCC is everything not Sports or Art and Leisure related, no?

 

I'm wondering whether that kind of tag would be beneficial for the Community forum as a whole, even if it's just from an organizational point of view.