Lit Sequel Trilogy or NJO story, which was the better choice?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by QuiWanKenJin, Jul 17, 2017.

  1. Darth Invictus Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 8, 2016
    star 4
    It would be a retcon-albeit an not a popular to any Legends fans.(or I suppose we could make it a Legends AU).

    Also though the politics and worldbuilding of Canon and legends are too different. The lengths of the galactic civil wars are different, the Yuuzhan Vong don't exist in canon, etc...

    Even in ancient history it doesn't work-in Canon there is apparently a Sith temple on Coruscant from 5,000 years before the battle of Yavin which doesn't make sense in Legends as the Sith attacked Coruscant at that time but were not based there.
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  2. sidv88 Jedi Master

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    Aug 22, 2005
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    Actually, an unseen war psychologically scarring Kylo Ren (like the Clone Wars did to Anakin) is a good way to explain a lot of his actions, rather than, uh, whatever reason we get with the current sequel trilogy.

    Also, I'm not counting the new EU like Aftermath etc. I'm just saying if Kylo were changed to Jacen in TFA, Jaina and Luke's family written as victims of the new Jedi purge and Chewie found alive, a TFA diverging from the Unifying Force really wouldn't be different from the TFA we got.
    Last edited by sidv88, Aug 7, 2017
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  3. Darth Invictus Jedi Knight

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    I suppose if you discounted the NuEU and everything post TUF in Legends I guess feasibly you could make it happen.
  4. DARTH_MU Jedi Master

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    Feb 9, 2005
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    Basically I think it would be like what Star Trek ended up like -- The old "canon universe" and what we have post 2009 due to wormhole a la Crosscurent or something. Both universes are "true".
    Wish they had done it like that. Then all the vitriol of what what "BBL" and "anti BBL" did to SW would not happen like this.

    Edit: Maybe when Palpatine get thrown into the DS reactor core, a Sith holocron get destroyed in Palpatine's robes and it forms a massive blackhole in which everything is sucked in and vomited out..... Disney!
    Last edited by DARTH_MU, Aug 7, 2017
  5. sidv88 Jedi Master

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    Aug 22, 2005
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    They could have had a reboot like Mortal Kombat 9 game did--Raiden saw the future of the original universe was overrun by Shao Kahn, and sent a message back in time to his past self to do something different, which changed the whole Mortal Kombat timeline.

    In Star Wars' case, they could have had Cade Skywalker fighting with Darth Nihl in the Valley of the Jedi in a Legends future overrun with One Sith. Cade Skywalker has in his lightsaber the Kaiburr crystal, taken from Mimban by Luke Skywalker in Splinter of the Mind's Eye and handed to him. He sees visions of all the previous owners of the Kaiburr crystal including Meetra Surik (yes, the Kaiburr crystal was attainable in KOTOR 2 for those who remember).

    Using the crystal to send a message through time to prevent this One Sith future, Cade sends a message to Meetra Surik back in KOTOR 2--"The Jedi Masters must die!"

    Meetra kills the Jedi Masters who exiled her and turns to the dark side, meaning that Malachor is still intact and the canon changes completely. Legends canon follows from the KOTOR 2 light side ending where Malachor is destroyed, and Disney canon follows from the KOTOR 2 dark side ending where Malachor survives as seen in Rebels.
    Last edited by sidv88, Aug 7, 2017
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  6. Havoc123 Jedi Master

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    Jun 26, 2013
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    I don't think it necessarily needs to be a huge event like that. I like the idea that Meetra Surik got some vision and interpreted it wrongly, hence killing off the Jedi Masters and leaving Malachor intact being the KOTOR 2 ending for nu-canon, and from then on things diverge massively. One of the reasons why the Empire ends up being more hated and lasting less could be that the Republic remained an underdog for much longer because of these events and no rebuilt Jedi Order. Presumably some of the remnant Sith could've hit them harder still even after Nihilus and Sion died. And maybe after Vitiate never succeeds in ferrying the Sith to Dromund Kaas so the Sith Empire as we know it in SWTOR never happens, resulting in a less militarized Republic. Maybe Revan and the dark sided Meetra succeed in taking out Vitiate as they tried in Legends, leaving the Sith on Dromund Kaas headless and infighting. Revan could tip off the Republic of their location and they just come in to mop them up quickly.

    Just some ideas, I think it's interesting to look at nu-canon from the point as an alternate timeline and look to where, when and how it diverged.
    Last edited by Havoc123, Aug 8, 2017
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  7. Outsourced Jedi Knight

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    Apr 10, 2017
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    I'd really rather not have weird divergent timelines.

    I mean, Trek goes back in time on a fairly regular basis, but Star Wars has usually been better about not doing that. It's just a cop-out, same as having a character frozen in carbonite just to bring them into post-yavin times.
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  8. DARTH_MU Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2005
    star 4
    But I think a concept such as Celeste Morne, (not carbonite, but something called Dreypa's Oubliette) a character able to interact with different characters of different eras was among the best thing in the EU. Why? We see how things are different in each eras, what does an ancient person think of the modern times? What might a conversation between an ancient person and a modern person be like?

    Also, "Star Wars has usually been better about not doing that" Explain. Have you read Vector comics? Did not like it? If so, that's just one time, doesn't qualify as "usually" if it's only been done one time. Or are you talking about Han's carbonization? That concept sucked? He should have been disintegrated? Locked up by Boba?

    My above post was just saying if SW did it like ST, it would have been some kind of olive branch for a portion of the EU fans such as myself. Everything still happened. So maybe the agents of the Felpire hunted down the last of the One Sith and she, in her desperation, just dabbled in Sith alchemy that restarted everything. It could be a single short story, or a single, 5 issue comics. Boom, instant disney that satisfy more people.

    As far as sequel trilogy, or NJO, which is the better choice... I will explain my preferences. One. Is it better to have no plan (rumors?) or have a plan? (NJO) I prefer the people in charge to have a plan (NJO). Two Is it better to continue, work with existing material? (NJO, it didn't disregard the Bantam stuff), or to destroy everything, the Jedi (guess what, people? the Jedi didn't return!!!) and the EU. So NJO wins again. The only thing good about the ST is an occasional good characters in it such as Ciena Ree (NuEU counts as part of ST, right, with all of them journey to the ....)

    But I wonder if anyone took a census of SW fans and asked them to find Mara Jade in a lineup in five or ten years, can they do it?
  9. jamminjedi23 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 19, 2015
    star 4
    Oh a lot of people who know anything at all about the old Expanded Universe would be able to pic out her picture. Now how many Star Wars fans will still care about Mara Jade in five or ten years once the full story of the ST is complete and they are busy filling in the the thirty year period between ROTJ and TFA is an entirely different question.
    Last edited by jamminjedi23, Aug 8, 2017
  10. QuiWanKenJin Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2005
    star 4
    Ah, make Kylo Ren's real name Jacen (Ben) Solo, and we got it! I wish we could do this! Unfortunately, this will only work so long until Episode 8 and 9, throw proverbial wrenches into this machine. More unfortunately, it can be brought down by something very small, for example if Maz says she had Anakin Skywalker's lightsaber since Bespin, or that Luke had never seen it since then, (this is a very real possibility) then that would derail the Thrawn trilogy, since both Luke's hand and the saber are a plot device in both. :(
    Last edited by QuiWanKenJin, Aug 8, 2017
  11. Outsourced Jedi Knight

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    Apr 10, 2017
    star 3
    No, I dont think that. Which is why I specifically said, in my original post, that I didn't like using Carbonite for Time Travel. Such as taking a character 1000bby to 10aby.
  12. DARTH_MU Jedi Master

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    Feb 9, 2005
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    @Outsourced

    You don't like time travel in SW at all or you don't like carbonite in SW at all? Or is it you don't like carbonite for time travel, but other form of time travel is okay?
  13. Outsourced Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 2017
    star 3
    I don't like time travel. Carbonite can used for that, and I don't like it when that happens.
  14. Valryk Jedi Padawan

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    Dec 27, 2016
    star 2
    Not a huge fan of either tbh
  15. DurararaFTW Jedi Knight

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    Jul 5, 2014
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    C3PO was perfectly familiar with, even confident in the procudure and even a layman like Lando could tell that "yes, he's alive." carbonite freezings were a part of this universe long before Jedi Orders were.
  16. Outsourced Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 2017
    star 3
    Yeah.

    But its also an incredibly weak plot decice when used to just straight teleport a character from the far past to the distant future.
  17. DARTH_MU Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2005
    star 4
    Personally I think carbonite is no good for time travel. It's too long time wise. The carbonite will deteriorate.
    But Oubliette by Dreypa is known to work.
  18. Darth Invictus Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 8, 2016
    star 4
    Time travel does exist in the Legends EU but it is a very rare phenomena-a few examples-the Sith Jaden encounters in Crosscurrent(I believe?), Bosbit Matarcher-forgetting to install relativistic shielding and traveling from 220 BBY to 22 BBY, one of the Bedlam spirits throwing a stormtrooper 8,000 years in the past, and maybe one or two more incidents.

    Flow walking doesn't count as the user is grounded in the present and can only observe the past or see possible futures(the ability to influence said futures is debateable).

    All in all time travel does exist but it's not near as common as it is in Star Trek.
  19. Thrawn082 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 11, 2014
    star 6
    It's hard to answer this question since we're only 1/3 of the way into the ST and don't know exactly how things will play out. That being said, there are a couple of things that work in both's favor:

    ST:

    -Rey, Finn, Poe, etc are more likeable characters than most of the NJO ones.
    -Kylo Ren is a more interesting villain.
    -The heroes got at least some respite, instead of just dealing with constant warfare ever few years that kept escalating in scale (making the original Galactic CW look like small potatoes by comparison).
    -The NJO felt too nihilistic and bleak at times imo. As of yet, the ST doesn't go quite that far.
    -Etc.

    NJO:

    -It felt like there was more progression. With the ST, they basically did the equivalent of nuking everything that the OT cast accomplished post-ROTJ from orbit. There's nothing left.
    -Everyone wasn't scattered, miserable, and depressed.
    -We actually got a payoff for a movie called RETURN of the Jedi.
    -They actually did something with the new government, instead of just blowing it up without delving into it hardly at all.
    -Etc.

    And then there's the matters of Rey's parentage and Kylo's character arc, where it's still a big question mark as to where they'll fall. So put those in the "undecided" column for now.
    Last edited by Thrawn082, Aug 9, 2017
  20. EmperorHorus Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2016
    star 2

    These are all very debatable. Both in terms of whether they are even true at all and/or whether they are a positive.
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  21. Thrawn082 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 11, 2014
    star 6
    ^Well yeah, that's why it's called an opinion. That's the whole point of this thread, which do you (the individual posters) feel is better. And that's how I feel about it, simple as that.

    So I'm not sure what point you're trying to make?
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  22. Darth Invictus Jedi Knight

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    Aug 8, 2016
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    I personally like NJO characters more but I'm glad we can agree to disagree.
  23. EmperorHorus Jedi Padawan

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    Sep 3, 2016
    star 2
    That's fair. I guess it didn't come across to me that you were portraying it as just your opinion and not some objective fact.

    But that's hardly on you, you can't expect everyone to preface every sentence with "in my opinion" just so people don't take things the wrong way.

    And I guess my point was maybe, that I disagree?
    Last edited by EmperorHorus, Aug 9, 2017
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  24. IG_2000 Jedi Master

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    Aug 5, 2008
    star 4
    I read all the NJO books I got around to while I was severely depressed and they made me feel worse as opposed to be escapism so Sequel Trilogy
  25. Darth Invictus Jedi Knight

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    Aug 8, 2016
    star 4
    Reading Invincible is what makes me depressed.
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