Lit Serving the Empire with the Light Side

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Daneira, Aug 9, 2017.

  1. Daneira Jedi Knight

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    There's always discussion here about whether or not simply being an Imperial or supporting the Empire makes you a bad person. What about force users? Could an Inquisitor or Emperor's Hand or something, who truly believes the Empire is a force for good, remain a lightsider?


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  2. Iron_lord Force Ghost

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    Zahn saw Mara as "Not a Darksider" but more "grey". Other authors, post Hand of Thrawn, have consistently portrayed her as using the Dark Side in the Empire's service, even if her motives might have protected her from becoming as evil as more conventionally selfish Dark Side Adepts.
  3. vncredleader Jedi Master

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    I would argue that carrying out the acts the Empire wants could make one a darksider. However I guess someone could use Lightside abilities and a lightside mental state. It would more so be a question of if someone could follow the lightside life style and remain along side a fascist regime.
    Last edited by vncredleader, Aug 9, 2017
  4. GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin + Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

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  5. Iron_lord Force Ghost

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    The Old Republic allows you to be "Light Sith" but that may be more gameplay and not entirely reflective of the way the Sith Code interacts with the Force in general.
  6. GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin + Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

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    I mean even apart from whether it's even possible to stay on the light side, the Emperor wouldn't tolerate it. I don't buy the Mara Jade thing at all.


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  7. Darth Invictus Jedi Knight

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    The Imperial Knights might qualify?
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  8. Iron_lord Force Ghost

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    Would the Emperor really care why somebody's serving him - as long as they're doing it - and doing it well?
  9. GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin + Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

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    Different Empire, with the Emperor explicitly supposed to be a light sider.

    That's a very EU view that I think isn't consist with the Palpatine in the films, esp ROTS. He wants to twist people. And everything about the Empire takes people's noble instincts and turns them dark.

    Also, they're a threat.


    Missa ab iPhona mea est.
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  10. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

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    The issue there for me isn't the fact whether or not they could use their powers for good but whether or not the Emperor and Darth Vader would allow it. Their primary opposition to the Jedi is from an ideological hatred of those who would use the light side and never support their regime as the ruthlessness of the Empire is an inherent to the system sort of thing (cue Monty Python angry peasant). Then there's the fact the Empire would inevitably call into question you to do things in support of bad ends. Like, what does Lightside Inquisitor do when he's called to sterilize planet Pahtoosh IV for its uprising against the Empire? Or enslave 10% of its adults?

    Baron Fel was an honorable, noble, and just man EXCEPT the Han Solo Trilogy blew all sorts of holes in that by saying, "So, how would Soontir Fel react if he was ordered to kill every man, woman, and child on Nar Shadda?"

    The authors answer was, "Okay."

    Which means he's not all that honorable at all.
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  11. Iron_lord Force Ghost

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    The EU did once suggest that Palpatine wants to subtly twist all Imperial military personnel into villains - by the naming conventions of Imperial ships and the like.

    Still, there's room for "people around which Palpatine pretends to be a good person" - he doesn't have to be All Corruptor All The Time.
    He was very uncomfortable with it - and wasn't sure if he could actually carry it out.
    Last edited by Iron_lord, Aug 9, 2017
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  12. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

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    It was a scene which inspired me to write my own book (seen in avatar) about the "honorable Imperial." Just how far can a good man serve an evil regime before he, in turn, becomes evil?

    Note: In the Mara Jade comic, written by Zahn I believe, Palpatine also claims Mara is an experiment. He wants to see just how far he can keep her as a gray Force operative before she's consumed by the Dark Side.

    So there's a presumption Mara was intended to fall eventually.
    Last edited by Charlemagne19, Aug 9, 2017
  13. Darth Invictus Jedi Knight

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    We'll eventually Palpatine wanted to rule the universe as he did Byss it would have turned even the most noble, respectable imperials into mere instruments of a mad man who wanted to become god's will.
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  14. Iron_lord Force Ghost

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    Stackpole - but with large amounts of input from Zahn. Stackpole had previously written Mara as a User of Dark Side (I Jedi) and I guess Zahn wanted Stackpole to dial that back a bit.
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  15. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

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    Point taken and corrected.

    Honestly, I think Neutral in Knights of the Old Republic Terms fits her just fine.
  16. Iron_lord Force Ghost

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    In D&D terms, she might qualify as Neutral-aligned. Whether LN or just N, might depend on how far she's willing to bend rules - sparing people she thinks deserve to be spared, despite the fact that by strict application of the law, they would be condemned.
  17. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

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    I'd go with Lawful Neutral as she defines herself as an instrument of the Emperor's will. However, she actually IS bending the rules a lot because she's serving a cause of Evil.

    An irony there.
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  18. GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin + Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

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    If we had to, yes, lawful neutral. But I think the consequences of upholding the law when it's the law of a dark lord of the Sith is still... net dark.


    Missa ab iPhona mea est.
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  19. Iron_lord Force Ghost

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    The Hand of Judgement, and that governor in Choices of One, are the most notable examples of Mara being more merciful than Palpatine would normally permit (presumably she managed to keep it secret from him).

    While her internal monologue occasionally describes him as "a good man, but..." it does seem like an element of self-deception is in play.

    I would guess that by ROTJ, she's had more exposure to his dark side usage. Children of the Jedi gave an example of the things she's seen Palpatine & Vader do- the creation of ferocious killer minions:

    "They mostly did it with semisentients: Ranats, Avogui, Zelosian Aga, cidwen. They'd use them for enclosure guards in places where they needed stormtroopers for other work. Drug them with a hallucingen like brain-jagger or Black Hole, something that worked on the fear/rage centers of the brain. They'd use the dark side of the Force to burn it into them, make it permanent, like a constant waking nightmare. They'd hunt and kill anything that came their way. Palpatine could drive them with his mind, call them or dismiss them ... I don't know of anyone else that could calm them down."
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  20. DurararaFTW Jedi Knight

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    Chancellor Sidious was able to send the actual Jedi on missions back in the day, the Emperor can fool an ignorant lightsider into doing his bidding for what looks like moral reason if he wants to. Just don't see why.
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  21. Iron_lord Force Ghost

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    Fun.

    And possibly, the chance to exult in the ex-lightsider's despair when they realise his true nature and how much they've aided his goals.
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  22. Daneira Jedi Knight

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    Do all lightsiders have to believe in democracy, freedom of speech, freedom of assembly? Can you be pro-autocracy and serve the light side, as long as you don't give in to anger, hate, or fear? If you see the Rebels as terrorists and think the destruction of Alderaan was justified, are you necessarily consumed by the dark side?


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  23. SpecForce Trooper Jedi Knight

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    I doubt Palpatine would care about the force beliefs of his underlings. It only matters if they're serving him. The Dark Side was definitely promoted, but I doubt the light side is a crime. If a random Inquisitor decides to only use the light side I seriously doubt he would get the boot. As long as your force wielding doesn't interfere with your performance there shouldn't be issues.
  24. darklordoftech Force Ghost

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    This. Wouldn't someone who sees themselves as "serving their galaxy" or "fighting terrorism" be an Imperial light sider? Wouldn't Stormtroopers be Imperial light siders? Wouldn't people who are "just following orders" be Imperial light siders? Wouldn't kamikaze pilots be evil light siders? Last time I checked, the dark side is about wanting power while the light side is about serving others. A dark side Stormtrooper would try to kill his/her commanding officer. A light side Moff would die for Sheev while a dark side Moff would hope to blow up Coruscant with the Death Star.
    Last edited by darklordoftech, Aug 9, 2017
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  25. Vialco Jedi Grand Master

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    No.

    Because the Dark Lord of the Sith that rules said Empire would never allow a Light Side Force-wielder to serve him. He would either destroy them or corrupt them to the Dark Side. Remember that Darth Sidious had ten thousand Light Side Force Wielders that served him and he chose to destroy them. Besides, any Light Side Force User that serves an Empire that blows up planets isn't worthy to be called such. They would have no excuse for not stopping the rampant destruction of the Empire and taking down the evil Emperor.

    Yes.

    You are.

    If you can feel the Force, you would have felt the billions of lives coming to a sudden and terrible end when Alderaan was destroyed. If you continue to serve the Empire that initiated such a massacre, then you are evil and you will fall to the Dark Side, because if you condoned such a horrific act, what's to stop you from doing the same? The Dark Side is a supernatural force. It will corrupt your beliefs and distort your goals, filling you with hate and anger until you forget all your high morals and become a vicious monster.

    Yes, because Zahn's pet character could never, ever be considered evil. A clear sign of his bias towards his inventions. Other authors got it right and wrote Mara as a cold-blooded, merciless assassin who murdered anyone the Emperor told her to. Palpatine isn't going to employ servants with such a strong sense of morality. Such weaknesses disgust him.
    Last edited by Vialco, Aug 9, 2017
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