Amph "Set a Course For Home." Star Trek: Voyager

Discussion in 'Community' started by JediXManSerenaKenobi, Sep 15, 2007.

  1. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    The DVD set for S:AAB, at least in some printings, includes the B5 station in it's menu images.

    [image=http://tinypic.com/dhbfk3.jpg]
  2. Jedimarine Force Ghost

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  3. Chancellor_Ewok Force Ghost

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    You are thinking of Year of Hell. I love that episode. The writers just completely beat the living crap out of the ship in those episodes.
  4. Koohii Jedi Grand Master

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    Star Wars & Time Travel???
  5. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    Only in limited examples in the comics- a Droids/Ewoks crossover, and characters placed in stasis awakening later on- oh, and I think there's an HNN reference to hyperspace malfunctions causing something similar.
  6. Chancellor_Ewok Force Ghost

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    Jacen has an ability called flow walking, in which he can view the past, but he's on record as saying that its impossible to actually CHANGE the past because if you try, the Force just changes it back. That's about as close as Star Wars gets to time travel.
  7. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    Oh yeah, I forgot about flow-walking, thoguh that's more of an extension of seeing visions of the future and past.
  8. Koohii Jedi Grand Master

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    Ah.
    Well, the comics were... comics. Great for kids, but hardly literature. (speaking of the Marvel series, not anything recent)
    As for the novels... aside from about a dozen that were reasonable to very good, they really should stop. Yikes, some of the descriptions I've read make the prequels look good! Kevin J. Anderson should have his crayons confiscated, and he's one of the better hacks. Outside of Brian Daley and Timothy Zahn, it is very difficult to find a good SW novel (not impossible, just very difficult--I only know of 4).
  9. Sinrebirth SWC and EUC Forum Moderator

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    Go read Luke Skywalker and the Shadows of Mindor. And the Revenge of the Sith novelisation. And Traitor. And Shatterpoint! :p

    That Babylon station... could it be retconned to be the first Babylon, sans the Enterprise series having a ship before Kirk's A? :p
  10. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    [image=http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090527021830/memoryalpha/en/images/2/2a/Harry_Kim_and_Quark.jpg] [image=http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090527023237/memoryalpha/en/images/2/26/USS_Voyager_departing_Deep_Space_9.jpg] [image=http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090527025856/memoryalpha/en/images/2/25/Caretaker_in_Human_form.jpg]
    [image=http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080813114356/memoryalpha/en/images/1/18/Caretakers_array.jpg] [image=http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090527034006/memoryalpha/en/images/3/3e/Caretaker_array_destroyed.jpg]
    VOY 101/102: Caretaker
    -Premise: The newly commissioned starship Voyager and a Maquis raider are flung into the remote Delta Quadrant by a powerful entity known as the Caretaker.

    -T2Q Comments: Neat that they mirror DS9's effective opening scroll. I don't think this was a tradition carried on by Enterprise. Gul Evek (briefly) returns- I'm surprised they didn't take the opportuniy to off a recurring characetr here like him.

    Very good teaser- now for the opening credits. Of the three modern shows with real themes, Voyager's, while not bad, is my least favorite of the three. Though they are obviously showing off how much the ship FX have improved in the past 7 years, and there are some nice touches (my favorite being the subtle reflection of the ship in the ice rings), it ultimately comes across as somewhat dull for an intro- and it never makes Voyager feel big. Sure, Voyager was a smaller ship than the Enterprise, but it's still bigger than the Enterprise-A and even that felt big most of the time.

    I remember that my initial impression was that I didn't like Janeway- not because she's a woman or anything, but because she had that nasally voice that really grated me. I eventually warmed to her somewhat and overcame that initial issue.

    Paris flirts with terrible pickup lines Trekkies wish actually worked on women.

    Voyager itself looks nice- I like the design, except for the stubby nacelles. But, the arrowhead-like saucer is a nice new variation. All those years as a kid pretending the spoons at restaurants were mis-shapen Federation ships, and finally we have a Federation ship actually shaped like a spoon. Shots subsequent to the title sequence do do a better job at conveying the scale os Voyager.

    Tom Paris, despite the attitude differences, tends to have a very similar backstory to Not-Tom Paris.

    ...and the best thing to come out of Voyager- Robert Picardo! "Tricorder." ::pauses, after seeing what is handed to him:: "MEDICAL tricorder."

    I believe my interest begins to decline as soon as we hit the old farm- it's a very TOSlike feeling- though thankfully it subsides quickly enough for the camp to make way for TNG-like holodeck danger.

    I know this is a very odd suggestion, but my first impression of Neelix basd on his first few lines, and maybe also because of the camera angle/lens, but I'm suddenly reminded a little of Ledger's Joker, or at least certain moments of Ledger's Joker- just not the evil/crazy.

    One other thing that just crossed my mind- it's odd that, till now, they've distinguished the "station" and "ship" uniforms for starfleet, yet Voyager's crew uses the DS9 station-style uniforms- granted, they do look better.

    And here come the Water Klingons- er, Kazon.

    "Kazon ships approaching the array"- how do they know what Kazon ships are?

    The battle is rather well done- the sense of zooming around Voyager for the battle is pretty neat (though having the soon-to-be-gone Maquis ship helps a lot, as with the Runabouts and OPdyssey in The Jem'Hadar).

    The malfunctioning holodeck effect is kinda creepy and rather effective here with the barn.

    Up to this point I was going to say that this was a strangely pro-prime directive story, showing the dangers of even beneficial interference in the long term, but then Janeway decides to ignore the application of the directive, which kills that notion. Personally, I think it's a poor judgement for the rule- she claims they are already involved, but the Caretaker would have died a
  11. Koohii Jedi Grand Master

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    Voyager, for all it's faults, actually felt more like classic TOS trek than any of the other shows. They had adventure and real exploration, even if they wined about it a lot.
    As for Janeway, a friend put it simply: Susan Ivonova is a woman of authority in command; Janeway is a bitch in command.
    The 2 crews don't stay well unified: conflict does arise as the series progresses, and is highlighted in a couple of episodes.
  12. Jedimarine Force Ghost

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    As cliche and shallow as it may seem...Janeway improves considerably when she lets her hair down...literally.

    It's actually a pretty good tip off for me...Janeway in the bun...change the channel...Janeway with hair down...stick around. It works not just because of her, but because of where the series is at in it's run...the show reaches it stride almost in step with her...perhaps more then coincidence.

    ----

    I have never seen "Caretaker" all the way through, nor most of the early seasons, so my comments will be few and general for a while.

    While I never took to Voyager fully, I'm glad it survived the early seasons, because there is some quality towards the end, particular once things seem to get comfortable...very much as TNG had to find it's way, so goes Voyager.

    I have to add my voice to the "meh" opinion on the ship design...it comes off as compact, bland...very much a product seemingly maintaining that TNG feel with a mid 90s minivans. If that sense could've been offset by a little more "kick"...like Defiant...it may have given it more reprieve...at least there would've been something under the hood.

    Alas, a bland ship, a crew built on pc politics, and the reemergence of the Utopian ethos that DS9 left drifting in the void...

    At least until Voyager ejects it like a warp core in a couple seasons.:p

  13. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    I'm not sure I'd try to compare Ivanova and Janeway (for all my DS9/B5 comparisons, the thought actually never even crossed my mind).

    Ivanova is a hardline commander, but intentionally keep her distance from the crew, with exception to the top command crew, for the most part. Janeway, at least at this point (don't know how it'll play out), seems to make an effort to relate to the crew but seems more arbitrary in what she is hardlined about in terms of command. She's more easygoing (again, thus far) than Susan, but sticks to certain things oddly (the sir/ma'am/captain thing, for example).


    As for it "finding it's way", though I can't speak from first hand experience, having watched only some of Voyager here and there, the impression I get is that, while 7 of 9 brings some focus, there's a general feeling that the show, in it's final year or so, didn't have the aim/direction towards it's finale for the characters that TNG's final season had, as if they didn't know it was a final season, an impression that somewhat culminates in the somewhat abrupt ending to Endgame.

    It'll be interesting to see if that perception holds when I eventually get there.


    It's actually funny that you bring up a minivan comparison to Voyager- I remember first seeing minivans in Tv ads in the late 80's/early 90's and thinking "Cool! They look like a shuttlecraft!" ;)


    And what do you mean by "a crew built on pc politics"? Seems like a thing about Trek has long been the mix of the crews, particularly race, nationality or disability (even though it's not the focus in-universe, "working with a russian", "kissing a black chick", "the first black captain", "the first female captain", etc are things often being a somewhat big thing out of universe at the time in discussion/promotion).
  14. Jedimarine Force Ghost

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    Totally agree...but that doesn't change the fact that the early premises for this show were a directed attempt to be more TOS like...far more episodic, far more "Utopian"...I once read an interview with Braga where he essentially said Voyager was made to appeal to people pissed off about DS9...that the stories had become so interwoven and severe in the federation, that to get that wild exploration feel back, they had to chuck the ship across the galaxy...what's funny is that he went on to say it was done so that people wouldn't be thinking "where's the Enterprise" in every episode.

    The plots often came off as corny, some of the characters took a REALLY long time to materialize with any depth, and in direct contrast to where shows like B5 and DS9 were going, Voyager was like the kiddy grade version of things, defanged from reality. Bring on that rebel crew and put them right into positions of power...hand in hand...you are on the other side of the galaxy now, your issues are moot. (and I love how there was no resolution to any of that when they get home.)

    By the time they start bringing in the Borg, tough decisions are being made, not the default "do I follow the prime directive" decisions...but real issues about making deals with the devil, abandoning people, and all out conflict.

    Personally, I think the show peeks with "Year of Hell"...but there are some great moments after that too.


    [image=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/77/90-93_Pontiac_Trans_Sport.jpg]

    My parents had 2 of them in the 90s...POS, both of them.

    The difference was this time around they publicized it before the show aired...they tried to use it as an enticement, rather then letting it be the subtle message each week.

    The first thing I ever heard about Voyager was "first female Captain"...I think it was a tv guide about 6 months before the show aired...might have still been the first Janeway that time. The Native American first officer, on the heels of the TNG episode may have made for a giggle in the writer's room, but with the "club you over the head" way they did it in that episode, Chakotay is a constant reminder of that.

    Additionally, not just the typecasting, but the way Janeway plays her own ships Counselor, particularly in the early seasons, with a great deal of "concert" decision...it comes off as "funtime in the Delta quadrant"...only way to get back to Roddenberry land, is to get as far away from the original universe as you can!

    Later in the series, Janeway gets an edge...her whine diminishes, and there is a anger she can call on that make her a good captain...they just don't have that early on.
  15. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    Oh, there's definitely a TOS echo at work here. I know they said they were going for that TOS "exploring the unknown" facet, and it definitely does come across as "the alternative to DS9" in show style.

    Personally, I feel that was a flawed notion that Enterprise later tried to repeat; the whole "harkening back to TOS" approach just can't work anymore- unless you revise the inherent execution. The new movie worked, because their solution was mostly "make it like Star Wars". Voyager and Enterprise didn't work (so far as this facet goes) because their decision was mostly "make it like TOS", and that can't work in a modern context anymore (TNG Seasons 1 & 2, for example).
  16. Jedimarine Force Ghost

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    They forgot that TOS pushed the envelope of television in it's day...you'd better serve TOS and it's fans by being similarly brave in the 90s.
  17. Koohii Jedi Grand Master

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    So, these Kazon guys... What's the deal with the stuff on their heads? Can't call it hair. Looks more like coral. Or a sponge. Is water so rare that the dominant millitant species has to evolve a way to literally soak it up from the atmosphere?
    Was there an explanation of this ever?
    As villains go, there' only slightly less weak than the Ferrengi.
  18. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    I just assumed their hair has become so dry as to become a nasty, wild dreadlock-fro that isn't washed very often because of the water scarcity.
  19. Jedimarine Force Ghost

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    I thought it was like chocolate that melted in heat and then re-solidified in the cold of space.
  20. Chancellor_Ewok Force Ghost

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    Agreed. That's one of the reasons why I like Voyager. It comes the closest to recapturing the vibe of TOS, which was bascially about a ship full of soldier-scientists exploring space. TNG started out that way and gradually moved more toward being about a starship a tool of Federation policy, while DS9 was very blantantly about the Federation at war. The only downside was that RDM was not allowed to go for the realism that he wanted. I think Voyager would have really shown the power of Star Trek's ideals when the crew is hellbent on returning to the Federation, despite the fact that their ship is falling apart around them. Star Trek: Enterprise did this to an exent,in that the ship sustained significant battle damage that went unrepaired for long stretches, while Battlestar Galactica did this to a great extent. Galactica gradually becomes more and more cratered as the series goes on, eventually becoming totally unspaceworthy, and the ships of the Colonial fleet show streaks of rust after sitting on the ground on New Caprica for more than a year.
  21. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    [image=http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20050809035737/memoryalpha/en/images/d/de/Voyager_at_event_horizon.jpg]
    VOY 103: Parallax
    -Premise: Investigating an apparent distress call, Voyager becomes trapped inside the event horizon of a quantum singularity.

    -T2Q Comments: Good opening- it's nice to see the Federation/Maquis crew conflicting still, even if the pilot jumped the gun on it at the end. When Kerry is talking about the staff meeting coming up, he sounds (and almost looks and acts) just like Max from Crusade.

    The nature of the transmission is a little too easy to guess, as well as the nature of the mysterious ship.

    Janeway is much more of a gearhead than other Captains- it's almost like she'd rather be a chief engineer than a captain, going by her actions in this first two episodes.

    So, not a bad episode- the twist is pedictable but not in a fatally flawed way. The crew conflict is something I've been looking forward to seeing some of, so, once again, it's presence here is welcome, and we have Torres being promoted to Chief Engineer, which is a a noteworthy event. I'm going to go with "Potentially Essential"- though it could qualify as Good Episode as well.



    Up next: VOY 104: Time and Again.
  22. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    [image=http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20060107195655/memoryalpha/en/images/0/01/Janeway_Time_and_Again.jpg]
    VOY 104: Time and Again
    -Premise: While investigating a massive explosion that destroyed all life on a planet, Janeway and Paris are swept back a day in time, where they must prevent the explosion.

    -T2Q Comments: Though Tom might be jumping the gun here a bit, he does have a good point about being the only humans out there, ha.

    A little awkward introducing the possibility of Kes's powers- "no one believes those stories" until now, of course.

    This story is already hurt by the look-and-act-entirely-human nature of these people- also the fact that they're using recognizably arabic numerals in their time pieces.

    "She's the healthiest member of her species I've ever seen- the only member of her species I'e ever seen."

    "Under normal circumstances I'd say we should come back tomorrow."

    Don't care for this kid, he's annoying despite occasional moments hinting at something better.

    I don't know about you, but I can hear the conversations of people walking 4 feet in front of me.

    "A most enlightened philosophy" Neelix is a bit of a kiss-ass. Warp 6- violation of warp barrier rules, Janeway- you rebel you!

    I do like the general 12 Monkeys "we caused it" angle, but as much as I love time travel episodes, this one just comes across as somewhat mundane and predictable. The Tom/kid plotline is hokey and unnecessary. The first hint of Kes's powers might be notable, but I think we'll be able to get by without this one (especially because her discovery of those powers is undone/erased by the altered timeline).

    I think the real core problem here is that this is simply not a Delta Quadrant story. This would be barely excusable as a Gamma Quadrant story. This is an Alpha Quadrant story, plain and simple- the elements that thrust this story forward (knowing the time of destruction off of a readable, digital timepiece and crew members being able to be mistook for local population without any excuses or non-clothing disguises simply doesn't pass in the Delta Quadrant.

    It's also odd that they'd do what are essentially two time travel/loop-like episodes in a row, especially for the start of a series. This isn't necessarily a bad episode by itself, but it's just out of place for the series and would be average at best even on TNG. So we'll go with that here- Average.

    Trivia: Inspired by the bombing of Dresden with the notion of what if you were there a day before and knew it was coming?

    The focus on Janeway this early was a lesson learned from DS9 where they felt they didn't anchor Sisko very well in DS9's first season.

    Story editor Kenneth Biller also felt it was unfortunate that this first planet episode featured a race that looked completely human. He also felt the episode suffered from child actor syndrome. Jeri Taylor commented on the back-to-back temporal mechanics nature of these episodes, observing they had went to that well too often and wished they had done this episode in the second season instead.



    Up next: VOY 105: Phage & VOY 106: The Cloud.


    Time Travel Log:

    -TNG: All Good Things... (alternate 3.5 Billion Years Ago; Jean Luc-Picard & Q; from alternate-2370)
    -TOS: All Our Yesterdays (2700 BC, Sarpedion Ice Age; NCC-1701 crew; from 2268)
    -TOS: All Our Yesterdays (Undefined 17th Century-esque Sarpeidon; NCC-1701 crew; from 2268)
    -TNG: Time's Arrow, part I (1893; NCC-1701-D crew; from 2368)
    -TOS: The City on the Edge of Forever (1930: NCC-1701 crew; from 2267)
    -DS9: Past Tense, Part II (1930; NX-74205 Defiant crew; from 2371)
    -DS9: Past Tense, Part II (1967; NX-74205 Defiant crew; from 2371)
    -TOS: Assignment Earth (1968: NCC-1701; from 2268)
    -TOS: Tommorow is Yesterday (1969: NCC-1701; from 2267)
    -ST4: The Voyage Home (1986: The Bounty crew, formerly of NCC-1701; from 2286)
    -DS9: Past Tense, Part I (2024; NX-74205 Defiant crew; from 2371)
    -DS9: Past Tense, Part II (2024; NX-74205 Defiant crew; from 2371)
    -DS9: Past Tense, Part II (2048; NX-74205 Defiant crew; from 2371)
    -
  23. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    [image=http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20060228222412/memoryalpha/en/images/9/95/Dereth.jpg] [image=http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20070525193622/memoryalpha/en/images/5/5b/Neelix_isotropic_restraint.jpg]
    VOY 105: Phage
    -Premise: Neelix's lungs are removed by a race that suffers from a deadly phage that is slowly destroying their population.

    -T2Q Comments: At least they're touching upon supply limitations here with rations and dilithium- but... don't replicators just run on energy?

    The brief medical emergency scene with Neelix is executed rather well. I am kind of liking Janeway's semi-gung-ho approach to things, going straight for the phaser to break through the rock without much consideration- you almost get the impression they were trying to go for an approach along the lines of this crew really being "the next class" in that they're the officers who've been reading starfleet reports of crazy crap like this all their careers so they're more prepared to handle it. I'm not saying that's how it'll ultimately play out, but I get that impression, at least momentarily, here.

    "But a hologram is just a projection of light held within a magnetic containment field- there's no actual matter involved." ::SLAP::
    [face_laugh] [face_laugh] [face_laugh]

    I'm surprised they didn't try to air this one back to back with DS9's Life Support, given the similar subplots.

    The blood toxicity was at 95% then suddenly Paris says it's rteurning to normal- can you really say that if it was so high? shouldn't you at leats wait for it to fall a bit more before making that claim?

    "You're ceiling is hideous."
    "I didn't design the room, I just work here."

    "I'm a Doctor, Mr. Neelix, not a decorator."

    "Don't worry- I'm not going to try to kiss you- I'm just adjusting the restraint."
    "I'll try to contain my disappointment."

    Robert Picardo is making this episode.

    Interesting camera work with the panning between stations during the start of the red alert.

    Although this is now the second episode to deal with a scene involving multiple Voyagers- it's worth noting this is probably the most ships (Starfleet or otherwise) we've ever seen on screen in any Trek story so far- with possible exception to the multiverse of Enterprises in TNG: Parallels.

    Surely there's a solution here better than just scanners? like, I dunno, use some kind of non-damaging laser, fire at the various reflections until you hit the one that it doesn't bounce off of?

    Haha, sure, Chakotay, take credit for MY idea, why dontcha?

    The confrontation conversation with the aliens comes across heavy handed, too spelled out. With all the momentum the episode had till now, throwing all the exposition in here at the end just doesn't work very well-they try to go for juxtaposed "good people doing bad things" sympathetic approach to them, which is all well and good, but they rush it out all at once as if they're trying too hard to make them likeable.

    However, I do like how Janeway kinda snaps under the pressure/stress of the situation- lamenting that she doesn't even have the limited option of turning them over to the authorities out here.

    Also, shouldn't they be much more concerned over bringing members of a species carrying this terrible Phage disease aboard?

    Ah, the replicators are offline, well at least that answers that.

    With exception to the extended exposition scene (though even that at least has a decent payoff), this was a pretty decent episode- Robert Picardo definitely made the episode, though. So for an early episode like this, I'll initially go with Good Episode, But not Necessarily Essential (though choosing to train Kes as a nurse could be a little noteworthy, depending on how they introduce it next time it's brought up).

    Buuuuut... seems these aliens do show up several times down the road. Ok, then, we'll move it up to Potentially Essential (depending on where those other episodes end up going).

    Trivia: Original concept for this episode focused on Paris losing his heart- they felt the lungs were less cornball and using Neelix was
  24. Chancellor_Ewok Force Ghost

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    Except that they throw this out the window over the course of the series. Janeway claims to have 38 photon torpedoes at her disposal. By the end of the series Voyager expends 98 pieces of ordnance.
  25. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    Maybe she's just bad at math ;)