Sex Education in Our School System

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by Amidala-Leia, Mar 24, 2002.

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  1. anakin_girl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    What Fingorfin said. The school system is not capable of teaching only the children of irresponsible parents. And as far as there being bad teachers--yes, they should be treated the same way anyone on any other job is treated, and believe it or not, especially in a non-union state like where I live and work, that is happening more often than the general public seems to think.

    Question for you, Darth Fierce: What exactly is a teacher, even a bad teacher, going to teach a child regarding sex that a responsible parent would object to so strongly? If one of us were to teach something along the lines of, "It's OK to have sex when you're twelve," we'd be fired on the spot, tenure or no tenure.
  2. Amidala-Leia Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2002
    star 4
    At least if the teachers are required to teach it, whether they be good or bad, we know the children are getting educated. If we leave it up to the parents we simply don't know. We could give parents informational tools, but we still wouldn't know. I don't think giving students information into their head because it's already there in most cases. And if the teacher tells 12 year old kids that it's okay to have sex, they should very well fired. And also, if the parents feel that strongly about sex education, they should have the option to pull their kids out of it.
  3. FlamingSword Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2001
    star 6
    At least if the teachers are required to teach it, whether they be good or bad, we know the children are getting educated.

    So you're saying that bad education is better than no education? I'm not so sure that. Bad education, or promoting the wrong ideas or stating blatant falisties, is worse than no education.

    If we leave it up to the parents we simply don't know.

    Very true, but ultimately the education of the child is the parent's responsibility. Sure teachers are there to teach and make sure that students learn what is needed, but parents put their kids in school.


    I am very much for people taking repsonsibility for their actions. If you know what consequences your actions will have, then you are better prepared to make a decision. I do think that everyone should have some form of sex ed so that they know what's going on, what the consequences can be, and how to avoid the unpleasant ones.


    What exactly is a teacher, even a bad teacher, going to teach a child regarding sex that a responsible parent would object to so strongly?

    I'm not DarthFierce, but here's my shot.
    There are people who believe that sex is sacred and should be reserved for marriage. I personally agree that it is a special thing that should only be shared with someone special.
    No matter what they may think, educators have a huge impact on young impressionable minds. They don't have to say that it's okay for a 12-year-old to have sex, they can imply it. I'm sure no teacher would think that. But even if they imply that it's something 16-year-olds do, that's already too much for some people. Also, parents may not like it when abstinence is not taught as a way to prevent STDs and pregnancy. They may even be upset if it's only taught as an alternative and not the only option.


    I should state for the record that I've never had any "sex ed" in school. I was homeschooled from 5th through 12th grade, so I only have second hand accounts of how it is taught. I learned stuff from textbooks, my parents, and a number of other places I will not name. I learned about STDs and how everything works without having sex ed in school. Some parents do teach their kids stuff, and bright kids can learn a lot of stuff by just looking for it (textbooks, dictionary, encyclopdia, library, etc.)

    Just my 2 cents :)
  4. Amidala-Leia Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2002
    star 4
    Well said Flaming Sword. You bring up a lot of valid points.

    So you're saying that bad education is better than no education? I'm not so sure that. Bad education, or promoting the wrong ideas or stating blatant falisties, is worse than no education.

    At least in the schools I attended there was a set curriculum of what to teach and discuss(in terms of reproduction, STD's, and methods of birth control). Further, the teachers who instructed these particular courses were well educated in sex ed and how to instruct students on it. At least with a set curriculum, students will be given basic knowledge on the matter. I know that this is not so in all cases. I believe that teachers need to be given a set curriculum before they teach sex ed. They shouldn't go in cold and talk about it. But if you want ot get technical there are bad teachers in other subjects and the kids are getting a "bad" education. Would we prefer our kids to get no instruction in those subjects if the instruction is bad?

    I believe in people taking responsibility for their actions. And I believe that the main responsibility falls on the parents. However, many parents will not talk to their kids about it. That is why I promote sex ed in schools, because I know that most parents will not talk to their kids about it.
  5. anakin_girl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    "They don't have to say that it's okay for a 12-year-old to have sex, they can imply it. I'm sure no teacher would think that. But even if they imply that it's something 16-year-olds do, that's already too much for some people."

    Trust me, if we were to teach that, we'd be fired. I believe it should be taught the way my mother taught me--emphasizing that abstinence is the only foolproof method, while still giving the other options.

    "Also, parents may not like it when abstinence is not taught as a way to prevent STDs and pregnancy."

    See my above post. It should be taught, and emphasized.

    "They may even be upset if it's only taught as an alternative and not the only option."

    Well, as far as I'm concerned, they can get over it, because when their child, who has not learned any other options, has given in to his or her hormones and become pregnant/impregnated a partner because he or she doesn't know any better, guess who ends up paying for it? The rest of society.
  6. Amidala-Leia Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2002
    star 4
    I agree with a_g that abstinence should be taught and emphasized.
  7. Darth Fierce Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 6, 2000
    star 4
    FlamingSword
    "I'm not DarthFierce". Lucky for you! :eek: I have no choice! ;) What you said was pretty much what I was thinking.

    ag
    See FlamingSword's repsonse. You can certainly debate it, but the point I was making is that there are concerns, and not every parent who has concerns about sex ed is necessariy hysterical, paranoid, overprotective and/or ignorant. Some just want to be sure it's done right. You say teachers will be fired on the spot for saying, or even implying, the "wrong" things, but that's not true, nor should it be. It's too subjective, you can't just say everything will be handled appropriately or the offenders will be fired, and then everything will be fine.
  8. anakin_girl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    Darth Fierce: Well, I argued FlamingSword's points already. I guess it gets a little personal here for me because I get tired of parents assuming that we teachers don't know how to do our jobs, or that parents would assume that we would do something like teach, or even imply, that it's OK for 12-year-olds to have sex.
  9. Saint_of_Killers Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 5
    Hey I started having sex when I was 12 and I turned out fine :p
  10. Saint_of_Killers Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 5
  11. FlamingSword Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2001
    star 6
    Hey I started having sex when I was 12 and I turned out fine

    Of course, we have no way of verifying any of that :)

    The majority of kids will ot be fine if they have sex at 12. Girls pregnant at 12. Both partners getting STDs at 12. It think that's sad. How well are they able to emotionally handle it?

    It's more than just pregnancy and STDs. Twelve-year-olds are kids. They should be acting like kids and enjoying their "innocence" and childhood while they can. Rushing into something like sex so young can't be good in my opinion.
  12. KaineDamo Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2002
    star 5
    I recieved no sex education at all in what you americans call junior high. My parents taught me nothing. When i hit puberty, i had no idea what was going on. I seriously thought i was some kind of freak. I thought i was the only person in the world that masterbated, i didn't even know what name to put to it. Kids NEED sex education, and the majourity of parents just don't give it. Qualified teachers teaching about it is the best way to go.
  13. Ariana Lang Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 10, 1999
    star 5
    Ok. I'll take a not-so-simple random sample and ask, Who's parents DID talk to them about sex?

    Because my parents did, and so did the parents of everyone I know.

    So mine did.

    Who else?
  14. anakin_girl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    Mine did, thank God, because as I think I mentioned, I live in a state where teachers can be fired for mentioning any method of birth control other than abstinence.
  15. Amidala-Leia Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2002
    star 4
    Mine didn't come to me to talk to me about it, but if I had any questions they would give me the best answer that they knew of. So I guess the answer is that yes my parents did talk top me about it.
  16. Jedi Merkurian Episode VII Thread-Reaper

    Manager
    Member Since:
    May 25, 2000
    star 6
    My mother did. By the same token, I was also that freaky kid in school who read the encyclopedia volume-by-volume in his spare time. So when it came time to have "The Talk" when I was 12 or 13, I pretty much knew most (but not all) of that stuff anyway.

    EDIT: Also, to refute the notion that learning about sex is an endorsement of sex, I learned about sex when I was in the 5th grade, and I was a virgin until I was 24.
  17. anakin_girl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    Teacher: "Now, boys and girls, what we have here is a very encyclopedic-looking drawing of the male anatomy. And to our right, a similar very encyclopedic-looking drawing of the female anatomy. When a naked man and a naked woman are locked in a loving embrace, sperm is released from the male to meet with the female's egg and form a zygote."

    Students: "Damn. This sounds like fun. Hey, Charley, you want to check this out this weekend?"

    Huh? Endorsement of sex? Giving kids ideas? Are you kidding me? ?[face_plain]

    Sounds more like a turn-off than a turn-on.
  18. KaineDamo Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2002
    star 5
    Teachers in Britain can't mention homosexuals. They can't even tell a teenager being bullied for being a homosexual that its ok. Do they address homosexuals in schools in America?
  19. Ariana Lang Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 10, 1999
    star 5
    They did in mine. But I go to a private school, where they can basically teach us anything they want and the state can't do anything about it.
  20. SillyMystic Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 16, 2001
    star 1
    My parents did teach me the basics beginning when I was eight. They, especially my dad, were always open to questions and encouraged us to learn about stuff. I did ask some questions, but as you can imagine, some of the stuff is kinda embarrasing for an adolescent. So I did my research in the dictionary and encylopedia as well as bookstores and libraries.

    I do have to say that there were extreme and weird things that I didn't learn about till college. I never was exposed to those things in Highschool since I was homeschooled. I'm sure there are people who know more than me, but I'm also sure there are plenty of people who know less. I don't need to know every single way an act can be done right now. And if I do ever want or need to know, I can look it up ;)

    ~FlamingSword
  21. imzadi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 19, 2000
    star 4
    Firstly, up to $90 a month for the pill? Well, I'm glad I don't live there. Here in Australia, for me, the pill costs $3.80 for a four month supply! Granted that's because I'm entitled to concessions as a student (university), which the Government subsidises. Without that, I think it costs around $11 for the same amount, again because it is covered by the Government's medical insurance (which everyone is entitled to, I think). I'm not sure if it's the same, but the pill is only available on prescription here.

    Anyway, back to the topic of Sex Ed. I had two semesters of sexual education while at high school. However, this was part of a general subject called "Human Relationships Education" where we also learned about communication, self-confidence, eating disorders, family issues like divorce and abuse etc. The first semester was in the first year of high school and the second was in the fourth. The second time around we also had weekly religious lessons, where religious perspectives on sex were taught (abstinence was advocated), as well as general religious studies.

    HRE was one of the best classes in my view. We learnt about sex in a factual way, with reference to stds and contraception and sometimes we had a good laugh. But that all helped us not to feel embarrassed about it. Which I believe people shouldn't. But the class was not only about that, and we learnt some other very useful information that had nothing to do with sex.

    One problem with the class though was that the males were greatly outnumbered. I felt sorry for them, but in the end, they learnt as much as the rest of us (perhaps a little more given there was a lot of talk about things from a female's perspective).

    Sex education was also taught in biology, each and every year. But it did not focus on 'sex' but rather the physiological processes and in later years, stds.

    While my parents (well, my mother anyway) explained the facts of life to me, it was no substitute for learning about these things and then discussing them with friends and informed adults. Having sex is far more dangerous than it used to be, people need the information to make informed decisions. Even if it just confirms their own beliefs that abstinence is the best policy.

    EDIT: Condoms in schools. We didn't have them, handed out in class or in vending machines in toilets (which is sometimes seen here in public toilets). We were taught where we could get them (in shops or health clinics). And frankly, if Sexual Education is effective, students should want to obtain condoms if they may be having sex.

    My apologies for ranting.
  22. Amidala-Leia Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2002
    star 4
    Don't have to apologize for ranting imzadi. I think we've all done it at some point on these forums :p I like the idea of the HRE class you talked about. I think American students could benefit from a class like that. I don't have to pay that much for the pill. I'm on it for medical reasons so insurance covers it $10 every 3 weeks. My university also gives students benefits, but only if a doc says it's necessary. Another question, should the cost be lowered for kids that want to be on the pill because they are having sex?
  23. Darkside_Spirit Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 3
    Teachers in Britain can't mention homosexuals. They can't even tell a teenager being bullied for being a homosexual that its ok.


    Though Clause 28 would be a devastating problem if enforced, in reality there's never been a single prosecution under the section, and there almost certainly never will. It should be removed in the interests of clarity and the absence of redundancy, but practically, it's not as big a problem as you might initially suppose.
  24. jayme_ Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2002
    star 3
    I just had Sex Ed. in my Health Class (i'm in High School), and honestly, not many people listen. My teacher was also from a Catholic school and seemed to not knowing anything about teaching us. She tried to teach through stories and experiences she's had, which was utter hell. During the Sex Ed. period of the class, she shared disgusting, revolting stories with us that I can't even say here because I don't want to be banned. It wasn't till the end of the class that I told my Dad about them, he was going to call up the principle but it was the end of the class and I wouldn't have to deal with the stories anymore.

    But anyways, I believe there should be Sex Education in school. It did help me understand sex and such much more. I also know a few peers who got something out of it too.
  25. Darth_SnowDog Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2001
    star 4
    For the record:

    I'm not Christian. I'm not the morality police. I don't believe music makes people commit suicide. I watched Robocop when I was 13, without parental supervision. I grew up watching anvils drop on cartoon characters. I saw my first porno mag when I was... maybe 6. I'm not opposed to masturbation (this is a fancy way of saying I jerked off a lot since the beginning of puberty). I had sex ed. I've seen many a porno movie. I've been to strip bars.

    ...and I remained a virgin until 26, and ended my virginity with the woman I knew I was going to marry...and we did get married after a two-year engagement.

    Riddle me that, Batman.
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