Sex: How much does physical love mean to you?

My problem with being friends with guys is that that's always where it stops -- friends. I get lumped into pal purgatory and that's very hard to break out of. So while I personally think the ideal way to start dating a guy would be to first be friends with them, realistically, I haven't seen that work yet.

 

At the risk of revealing too much personal information; it's my belief that while "physical love" should not be the primary resaon for two people to be together, it is a very important part of a relationship. For many people, "physical love" means one thing (and one thing only) sex; and that just is not the case.

Personally, I enjoy the more simple forms of "physical love" in my relationship. Hugging my girlfriend when I first see her, when she rubs the back of my neck while we're driving somewhere, those "little things" can make for a very happy relationship; without the pressure for sex. We recently had our 6-year anniversary, and life is good. And there is more to us than just a "physical relationship."

 

i think a lot of people who are virgins and who are clinging to the hope that they either couldn't have bad sex with someone they're in love with, or that it wouldn't affect them if they had bad sex with someone they love deeply, are greatly underestimating the degree to which bad sex is an emotionally alienating experience.

you may think now that if you really love someone that nothing that happens in the bedroom could ever change that. based on my experience, and the experience of a wide variety of friends with very different ideas about sex and love than i have, you're being very, very naive.

bad sex always has an emotional impact. you may not think so, but if sex isn't clicking for you, you will feel a lack of connection with that person. you will feel more distant from them. you will not look at them the same way. you can insist all you want that that's not going to be how it is for you, but i have no qualms at all about telling you flat-out that you're wrong.

people are irrational about sex. they just are. if you think that love is exempt from people's weird reactions to sex, then you've never had sexual problems in a relationship.

let me give you an example.

i take sex very seriously, and it's very important to me, but i'm not at all monogamous. i'm kind of a slut, actually. but one of my closest friends is quite the opposite. he's very, very, VERY monogamous. he's currently involved with someone who was his best friend for years before they ever got together. he has only slept with one other girl, his high school sweetheart whom he dated for a number of years. his current girlfriend (his best friend for almost 4 years beforehand) was a virgin before she was with him, and they've been dating for over two years now. they are both very mature, stable individuals. they talk openly and honestly about their problems. they are a model monogamous relationship and they are deeply in love.

a few months ago they had some problems with their sex life caused by some medication she was on. they both knew it was a problem caused by an outside factor (the medication) but it wreaked psychological havoc on both of them individually and on the two of them as a relationship.

he knew it was not "his fault." but self-doubt has a way of working on people. he doubted his masculinity. he started to feel guilty, self-conscious, and insecure. it was painful and confusing and deeply alienating. he blamed himself for the problems.

she knew it wasn't "her fault" either. but she knew he was hurting and felt responsible anyway. she felt guilty, and also like she wasn't adequate. she blamed herself, too.

while they were having their sexual problems, they were both really stressed out all the time. every little petty disagreement they had in the course of their days exploded into fighting. it caused all kinds of problems in their relationship and it became a wedge between them, even though they loved each other deeply and they tried really hard not to let it become that way. it was only "solved" when she got off the medication.

it's amazing how badly negative emotions like this can play off each other and multiply even in psychologically healthy people in solid loving relationships. sexual difficulties rapidly breed insecurity, guilt, self-doubt, blame (even if only subconscious), guilt, resentment, bitterness (always a biggie), etc etc etc.

it's much harder to deal with if you care about the person you're with. if it's a casual thing, and your partner isn't totally satisfied, it's kind of a blow to the ego, but not much worse. it can eat you alive to see someone you love have unfulfilling sex with you because you really internalize that kind of thing.

lying there in the awkward moment, with someone you love more than anything, wondering what's wrong with you or with the relationship that you just can seem to click with each other is hellish. i've been there and i hate it worse than almost anything else.

the worst part about these problems is that they snowball-if you have bad sex once, the ne

 

Dizfactor,


You are my hero. You said it better than anyone else has so far. I work with a lot of teenagers in one of my jobs and I always think to myself when this topic comes up "God, that's noble of them, but they just don't understand..."

I used to think the same, that you could keep sex and love apart, but I have learned that I can't. If there is someone who can, that's cool, but I am not that person and I have learned to deal with that (both the good and the bad).

 

This thread started out with a lot of surprising agreement, but it turns out, there wasn't as much as we thought. I have to say this has been very interesting and elightening. I know I'm inexperienced and probably somewhat naive, so it's nice to see what other people so I can figure out what works for me.

I'm not going to disagree that sex is a very important part of a relationship. But then are so many other things which could be potential problems. And you can only ensure that it's good to a certain extent. People change, tastes change, and bodies change.

Like Ariana, I'm one of those people who wants to be friends with a guy first and then date him/see if I like him more than friends. But then, I haven't done a lot of dating.

At least if you never have sex, you won't have to worry about it masking a bad relationship ..... errr, right

 

Dizfactor, ... You are my hero.

aww, shucks. you're making me blush!

 

Ok, I've been reading this thread the whole way through. And I've noticed... most of the people who care more about the emotional side over the physical side of a relationship are female. I think this is simply a difference between men and women, although some men may care more about emotional things and some women about physical things. Why not leave it at that? Instead of attacking us and calling us naive? SOME PEOPLE JUST DON'T CARE AS MUCH ABOUT SEX. We're not naive. We just have DIFFERENT PRIORITIES.

I'm with Mastage and Saint_of_Killers in saying that attaching love, sex, & marriage together is a recent & curiously patriarchal sentiment.

Yeah, and it used to be acceptable to force young girls into marriage with men who would then basically rape them on their wedding nights. Do we really want to go back to those days? Our society has changed, and so have people in that society.

 

You all just want to possess your fathers!


Sorry.....Freud sometimes makes me laugh.

 

He's not saying that YOU are naive, he's saying that your viewpoint is naive. It's like someone saying that they can hold their liquor and maintain their driving ability even though they've never taken a drink in their life.

It's a fact of life that most people change, not only in what they want but what they need and how they react to things, many times before they hit their mid-twenties. Not every does but I've never met one person who didn't.

This goes along with Sleazo's contention that staying a virgin in college is an exception and not the rule. It has nothing to do with the strength of your convictions, it has to do with the fact that your convictions will most likely change. Again, it won't happen to everyone, but it will happen to most.

I don't think personally think anyone here is naive but I do agree that believing that sex doesn't matter to a relationship in the long run is. It matters.

The other thing you have to come to grips with is that while sex might not be important to your relationship needs it could very well be quite important to your partners. Once again, something you won't find out until you've engaged in it with them.

I'll agree with the "women want emotional stability and men want great sex" up until the mid-twenties or so. At this point most people have matured enough to know that they're ready to look for a person that can fulfill all of their needs and their selection process is more lengthy and systematic. At least, it is for me. The elements still have to be there but at this point in my life sex is no longer just sex, it's a way to grow closer to my partner. If it's not working then we'll never have the level of closeness that we should. There will always be doubt that our needs are being met and that we've settled.

 

We just have DIFFERENT PRIORITIES

well, as much as i am wary of being a biological determinist, in this case, i'll make an exception.

i don't believe that you do, no. we exist as a vehicle for transmitting our genes. everything else is just details. sex is the highest priority that everyone has, though our monkey brains have gotten too clever for their own good and have convinced us otherwise in some cases. we are built to stay alive long enough to procreate successfully and take care of our children until they can do the same. that's all.

 

And I've noticed... most of the people who care more about the emotional side over the physical side of a relationship are female.

i think it's more telling that those who insist that sex isn't important in a relationship are mostly younger and less sexually experienced than the other side...

 

i don't believe that you do, no. we exist as a vehicle for transmitting our genes. everything else is just details. sex is the highest priority that everyone has, though our monkey brains have gotten too clever for their own good and have convinced us otherwise in some cases. we are built to stay alive long enough to procreate successfully and take care of our children until they can do the same. that's all.

I want children. I just don't care how great the sex is, that's all. My priority is finding someone that I'll enjoy spending the rest of my life with and who will want to raise children with me. If the sex isn't that great, I don't care. I'm marrying for companionship and to start a family.

And people can chose to have whatever priorities they want. We are highly inteligant, more so then any other animals, and can chose to abstain if we feel it will be better for us. (Such as people who want to serve God that way, and feel that is there calling). If I never had sex the rest of my life, I'd be perfectly happy. If I didn't find someone to marry, I'd be sad, but I'd live. I'd have children artificially and still manage to have a family.

 

"Yeah, and it used to be acceptable to force young girls into marriage with men who would then basically rape them on their wedding nights. Do we really want to go back to those days?"

Actually, the ideas I was talking about("saving yourself") come from those times, when women were treated as commodities and were considered more valuble if they were virgins.

 

So you don't think it's a positive change that people chose who to marry, not their parents, and they usually marry for love? Society has improved for the better. My decision to wait for marriage has nothing to do with "saving myself." I just only want to be that intimate with the person I'll be spending the rest of my life with.

 

He's not saying that YOU are naive, he's saying that your viewpoint is naive. It's like someone saying that they can hold their liquor and maintain their driving ability even though they've never taken a drink in their life.

Okay, anecdote time:

I went out drinking for the first time on Friday; I've never had a drink before. So all my friends who do drink thought they were gonna have a blast with me. I drank 'em all into the ground and didn't get the slightest bit drunk. Apparently my family as a whole has a very high tolerance for alcohol, and I seem to have a high tolerance even for my family. Anyway, I'm back to my teetotaling ways now, because as far as I can tell drinking has absolutely no benefits for me whatsoever to counter the health risks.

 

Oh Rebecca, Rebecca, what you said. Your youth definately betrays you. When you are looking at life from over triple your age as I am, you will sing a different tune. How sad to be stuck in a relationship with someone who fumbles around or just "does the deed because they have to..." I would rather cut off my arms....

 

Look, people have different priorities. I'm trying not to insult anyone. But I don't care about physical pleasure. I just want companionship and a family. And two people who are truly in love should be able to work to find a way to please each other.

 

Oh, but post a note on my grave when you turn 55......

 

I'm sure I'll be perfectly happy. And I know I'd be a very unhappy if I left someone I truly, truly loved just because he wasn't given me a lot of physical pleasure.

 

I think you're both right. I certainly admire your priorities and strength, Rebecca. No doubts there. At the same time, age and experience often changes our perception and views of things, even if we don't actually change our actions or way of life.

 

That's the funny thing with sex...There is no wrong or right answer. It's more a feeling that you have "Do I or don't I want to have sex?"

Rebecca, I admire your conviction and idealism. Your view, although not for me (and it took me having sex to realize that), is a very valid one and is a swing back from the days when a lot of teenagers had sex in high school.

I would like to see how your opinion changes in about 7 years or so.....

 

I'm sorry, but there are too many people out there who DID wait until marriage and have a wonderful sex life for me to believe that you HAVE to "test your partner out" before hand.

 

Well, if this place and all of us are still here years from now.... and we remember this conversation.... and I doubt we'll remember it, lol....

Edit: Ariana, I would have to agree with you. But who knows if people who feel the opposite will believe you? Do you know a lot of these people personally? People who waited til marriage and were happy with their sex lives?

 

Well, sex can be an important part of a relationship. Never the most important part, but still valabule none the less.

If two people truly love each other and want to have sex, then I think they would try to make it great. They would try to make sure the other enjoys it. It may start off bad, but if they want to make each other happy (which is sort of how I define love) then they will ask questions and honestly answer them to make it overall a better experence.

Also my friend statement did not really have anything to do with if you dont like the person the relationship will fail. It seems like for some people, lovers come and go, but many times they have a few friends that are life long. In my mind, a wife (or husband as the case may be) should also be one of those life long friends. You can still truly romantically love a person who is not a life long friend, but it is easier if you are close on so many levels.

 

"i think it's more telling that those who insist that sex isn't important in a relationship are mostly younger and less sexually experienced than the other side... "

Thats an interesting point dizfactor