Sexism policy

Discussion in 'Communications' started by Ender Sai, Nov 3, 2014.

  1. anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 9
    You are indicating that being called a "feminist" is offensive.

    There is no reason why that word should be considered offensive. That word is used by misogynists as an attempt at an insult but that says more about what the misogynists think about equality than it does about the word "feminist."
  2. Ewok Poet Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2014
    star 5
    There's something pretty much unacceptable happening in one of the three safe space threads. I would like to see more solidarity when AFABs complain about harrassment. What people go through matters more than the semantics. Please. Discussing the issues from the political side of things is OK, but how are we going to open our eyes to sexism without dealing with actual examples and showing empathy?
  3. V-2 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2012
    star 4
    Could you be more specific? I'd like to see where this is happening.
  4. anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms

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    Mar 4, 2011
    star 9
    I would rather actual examples be PM'ed directly to the mods or shown to them via the report button and keep this thread on general discussion.

    As I think I have said in the past, examples don't really open eyes to sexism to anyone who does not already see it ; to those who don't, we just look like people who would rather complain about how victimized we are than empower ourselves by discussing what the specifics of a policy that helps women feel as comfortable here as men do.

    At worst, specific examples invite specific examples from the other side ("I got called sexist for saying that someone was hot!") and while all the complaints might be valid, the thread is still derailed. And the only possible answer is for moderators to go down the list of complaints one by one--that example is sexist, that one isn't, that one is--and the thread never ends.
  5. Ewok Poet Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2014
    star 5
    If you don't get what I'm on about, drop it. Just...stop paying attention to what I am saying, it won't change anything.


    Not really. On another board (which is a wild place compared to most of this one) as well as IRL, I explained people, age 7-60something what they were doing wrong and I had about 33% success rate. Also, we are a bunch of people on a board, we are not a movement, therefore we don't need agenda, a style guide, guidelines on how to behave or whatever. One just cannot be cynical to that degree, it's not human and it's not possible.
    Last edited by Ewok Poet, Jul 2, 2015
  6. anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms

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    star 9
    33 percent is not what I consider successful but OK.

    I think I have said as much as I can earlier in this thread about what a policy should look like, it's already been derailed several times by examples (many from the other side regarding "I should be able to say this without getting in trouble") and that's part of the reason it has gotten this long. I think we defined the problem already, and yes, specific examples were used, so I won't say that they never have their place. But...I don't think turning any thread like this into a long list of How Women Are Victims without also adding general, all-encompassing solutions is productive. There is also this question: Do you want to be viewed as a victim, or too empowered to put up with bull****? I personally prefer the latter.

    With that I'll bow out of this particular back-and-forth and let the moderators make the call on your concern.
    Last edited by anakinfansince1983, Jul 2, 2015
  7. Ewok Poet Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2014
    star 5
    Empowerment cannot exist without empathy and a slight dose of idealism, because one starts from zero. And with that, 33% is success. It depends on the demographics and many other factors. Just think of the Everyday Sexism blog. They are based on what I have just described and they have opened many eyes.
  8. Heero_Yuy Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 4
    If I'm guessing what you're talking about right, those semantics arguments are a deliberate diversionary tactic. It takes the focus off the substance of the poster in question in order for the semantics arguer to make it about him/herself.
    Ewok Poet likes this.
  9. Ewok Poet Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2014
    star 5

    You are and I didn't think of this as planned to THAT extent before. Yikes!
  10. anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms

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    Mar 4, 2011
    star 9
  11. Only-One Cannoli Ex-Mod

    Member Since:
    Aug 20, 2003
    star 7
    FFS say what you mean and post it. We can't get anything done without actual honesty and being up front about things.
  12. harpua Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2005
    star 9
    This entire page makes no sense. If you want something to change, you've got to be specific about what is bothering you. Don't play games... just spill it. Nobody is going to play guessing games with you.
  13. JoinTheSchwarz JC Head Admin & Community Manager

    Administrator
    Member Since:
    Nov 21, 2002
    star 8
    I agree. I have no ****ing idea what anyone has been talking about for at least thirty posts.
  14. Ewok Poet Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2014
    star 5

    I messaged you. There are things that cannot be shared with people who sit on the board all day and seek new arguments, confrontations, opportunities for very subtle bigotry et cetera. Please, read.
  15. TrakNar Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 4, 2011
    star 5
    Oh hell, it's partially about me anyway...

    A while ago, I went into the Misogyny thread and mentioned how my gaming tastes are judged and mocked based on the fact that I'm female, and thus am basically expected to like certain things. Prior to mentioning that, I had echoed a previous poster who used the word "mansplain." In my statement, I said that I haven't had my comic fandom "mansplained" to me. I then went on to mention how I've been judged for playing games like Pokemon.

    V-2 used that one mention of the word as a point of contention and the topic went completely off the rails. I didn't even use the word in my example, and I apologized twice for using it, when all I did was say that I haven't had my comics "mansplained" to me.

    I tried to get the topic back on track to absolutely no avail, and then just abandoned it, popping in only a few other times to drop a meme.
    Last edited by TrakNar, Jul 7, 2015
  16. V-2 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2012
    star 4
    @TrakNar - It was never about you personally, it was just an opportunity to confront the use of a contentious word. I apologise again.

    @Ewok Poet - I'd like to hear who this person is too, they sound vile. Oh wait, it's ME isn't it!

    I'll take the time to discuss your misconceptions if you want. Here, there, or in PM with an arbitrator of your choice. I have nothing to hide and not much to be ashamed of.
  17. gezvader28 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 22, 2003
    star 5
    Ramza Edit: I know cheekily trying to subvert a moderator warning by going to a Comms thread and presenting it out of context, rather than PMing the moderator for clarification, probably seemed like a good idea, but it wasn't.

    Incidentally feel free to refer to clauses concerning respect for other users and hate speech if this is really that difficult.
    Last edited by Ramza, Apr 29, 2016
  18. gezvader28 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 22, 2003
    star 5
    ok , well that certainly wasn't my intention , but I suppose I can see how it could be taken that way so - apologies .

    .
  19. Jonipoon Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 22, 2014
    star 4
    Someone called me a "kiddo" in another thread. The poster clearly has no idea how old I am, so I'd say its just an insult. However, shouldn't this (age discrimination) be on an equal level as sexism and racism?
  20. FatBurt Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 21, 2003
    star 6
    No. I get that ageism is a thing and will wholeheartedly support the eradication of decisions that are being made over the fact that someone is "too old" but being worried about "kiddo" is just silly.

    Especially here. With the odd rare exception, it's possible to identify if a poster is male or female based on posting style and phraseology. It's is substantially harder to identify someone's age. And considering the posts seen in the JCC most of us would barely register above 12.


    Ageism is a thing but I don't think it is anyway an issue here.
  21. anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms

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    star 9
    And when it is an issue here, it isn't tolerated. Usually ageism comes up as someone referring to people above a certain age as ugly, incompetent, etc.

    Calling someone "kiddo" might be condescending depending on the context, but it's not ageism.

    Report the post if you are concerned and a moderator of the forum in question will decide if it's actionable.
    Ewok Poet and heels1785 like this.
  22. Darth Guy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2002
    star 10
    Ageism tends to mean discrimination against and prejudice toward the old, not the young. The young are catered to and favored by society in a lot of ways. While it's annoying to have one's views dismissed solely on the basis of youth, it's not equivalent with racism and sexism. Not even close.
    Last edited by Darth Guy, May 27, 2016
  23. Jonipoon Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 22, 2014
    star 4
    What should matter is how individuals feel after an insult. I could choose not to be offended, or I could choose to be offended. In my case, I chose not to be offendend but rather use the insult to ignite a discussion in a relevant thread.

    I don't agree that the young are catered to and favored by society in all cases, there are plenty of examples like in the workplace, where youngsters capabilities are considered inferior to the elder and thereby discriminated regardless of their skills.

    If you say "ageism tend to" it does not mean that's the norm or only thing out there. Just like there are different forms of ageism, there are different forms of racism and sexism.
  24. CEB Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 3, 2014
    star 5
    There's a surprise. The perceived ageism is a Trojan horse by which he can implicity suggest that the problem with sexism is choosing to be offended by it (which is clearly why he posted the perceived ageism on a sexism thread)
    Ewok Poet and KnightWriter like this.
  25. anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 9
    1. The administration of this site determines what does and does not constitute sexism, ageism or any other -ism. I would suggest one, reading through this thread to get an idea of what might be considered an offense, and two, if you believe a post might be considered sexist, ageist, etc., per the guidelines in this thread and the hate speech policy--do not post it.

    2. Suggesting that people are "choosing to be offended" is not going to go over very well, nor will it stop you or anyone else from being moderated for posting something sexist, ageist, racist, etc.

    3. If and when such moderation does happen, it will not be because people "choose to be offended," it will be because you chose to violate the policy.

    4. Repeating this: if you think someone calling you "kiddo" violated a rule, report the post. Complaining here instead of doing so, especially with commentary about "choosing to be offended," leads me to think there's a bit of a Trojan horse attempt myself.