Shhhhh! Don't tell anyone!

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by Go-Mer-Tonic, Jan 26, 2000.

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  1. GreedoCMZ Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 13, 1999
    star 4
    I think it was cheesy for ESB to have to go through with that whole "Yoda is pretending to be crazy and then he reveals to Luke that he really is Yoda." It just builds up false suspense and everytime I watch it it's like "Yeah, yeah, yeah. We know who it is." Same with the Obi-Wan thing.
  2. Quaff-Down Gin Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 28, 1999
    star 4
    You're definitely building a pile of something, Boba...
  3. Obi-Wan McCartney Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 17, 1999
    star 5
    You see, the point is, I have no idea. I think it would be cool if he did, and it would make the star wars saga a much bigger and more interesting place to wonder what happnened to the fallen Anakin, but it might be hard to do. It is simply better storytelling to leave the Vader=Anakin a secret.
  4. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    http://dave.itsgames.com/gt.jpg I knew there were others who thought as I do.

    There is no reason why it would be hard. They can still show Anakin's fall, they can still show Vader at the very end, they just leave out any bit that shows they are the same person.

    Then after you see all the films, you can go back to episode III knowing Vader is Anakin, which will make ANH and ESB veiwable from an alternate perspective.

    This will be so cool.
  5. johnpgreen Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 9, 1999
    star 1
    After watching TPM there's no reason not to think that the Emperor in ROTJ is Sidious and not Palpatine at all. The Emperor is never reffered to as Palpatine within the movie. WE know that the Emperor is Palpy because it's the same actor and we know the backstory, have read the novels, etc. But if you just watch TPM and then JEDI there's nothing that can eliminate the possibility that Palpy was offed by Sidy and Sidy took over to become Empy.

    We all know that's not true, but when you say it's not revealed that Sidy is Palpy in TPM you also have to keep in mind that Empy's name is never given in ROTJ.

    Now, back the "Vader's identity" secret. I don't care if the secret is kept or revealed - I only hope it's done right. If GL attempts to keep Vader's identity hidden at the end of Episode III, I just hope it STAYS hidden until ESB. If GL tries to hide his identity, there is plenty of dialog in ANH that could give it away (i.e. Vader and Ben's conversation when they duel.) If GL hides Vader's identity, but doesn't take into account the dialog from ANH, then the audience will figure out that Vader is Anakin right then and there. Thus, the surprise of ESB will be ruined in ANH. If there's any chance that the surprise will be ruined before ESB, then GL SHOULD reveal it in Episode III. And the only way to make the audience believe that Vader might not be Anakin is for Obi-Wan to take on another apprentice in Episode III, after Anakin leaves him. This new apprentice would ALSO have to turn to the darkside, and at the end of Episode III the audience would have to be given some reason to think he's alive. If these events do not happen, when Vader says to Ben in ANH "When I left you I was but the learner, now I am the master" the audience will know that Vader is Anakin. If Obi-Wan only ever has Anakin as an apprentice, then we'll know in ANH that Vader is Anakin, whether or not GL tries to hide the secret. This being the case, I'd rather GL give us the best possible story that satisfies us even if it gives away Vader's identity, than struggle to write around the dialog in ANH that would give the secret away.

    And I don't want to see Obi-Wan with another Padawan. If anything, I can see his failure with Anakin as a reason why he would go into hiding.

    Also, keep in mind that in ANH we don't know Luke's last name is Skywalker until he tells Princess Leia on the Death Star. Ben tell's Luke that Vader was his pupil, not Luke's father. Luke's father is never referred to by name in ANH, so for all we know, at the end of Episode III we might be led to believe that Luke's dad was some other Jedi. Like Mace Windu.
  6. johnpgreen Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 9, 1999
    star 1
    After watching TPM there's no reason not to think that the Emperor in ROTJ is Sidious and not Palpatine at all. The Emperor is never reffered to as Palpatine within the movie. WE know that the Emperor is Palpy because it's the same actor and we know the backstory, have read the novels, etc. But if you just watch TPM and then JEDI there's nothing that can eliminate the possibility that Palpy was offed by Sidy and Sidy took over to become Empy.

    We all know that's not true, but when you say it's not revealed that Sidy is Palpy in TPM you also have to keep in mind that Empy's name is never given in ROTJ.

    Now, back the "Vader's identity" secret. I don't care if the secret is kept or revealed - I only hope it's done right. If GL attempts to keep Vader's identity hidden at the end of Episode III, I just hope it STAYS hidden until ESB. If GL tries to hide his identity, there is plenty of dialog in ANH that could give it away (i.e. Vader and Ben's conversation when they duel.) If GL hides Vader's identity, but doesn't take into account the dialog from ANH, then the audience will figure out that Vader is Anakin right then and there. Thus, the surprise of ESB will be ruined in ANH. If there's any chance that the surprise will be ruined before ESB, then GL SHOULD reveal it in Episode III. And the only way to make the audience believe that Vader might not be Anakin is for Obi-Wan to take on another apprentice in Episode III, after Anakin leaves him. This new apprentice would ALSO have to turn to the darkside, and at the end of Episode III the audience would have to be given some reason to think he's alive. If these events do not happen, when Vader says to Ben in ANH "When I left you I was but the learner, now I am the master" the audience will know that Vader is Anakin. If Obi-Wan only ever has Anakin as an apprentice, then we'll know in ANH that Vader is Anakin, whether or not GL tries to hide the secret. This being the case, I'd rather GL give us the best possible story that satisfies us even if it gives away Vader's identity, than struggle to write around the dialog in ANH that would give the secret away.

    And I don't want to see Obi-Wan with another Padawan. If anything, I can see his failure with Anakin as a reason why he would go into hiding.

    Also, keep in mind that in ANH we don't know Luke's last name is Skywalker until he tells Princess Leia on the Death Star. Ben tell's Luke that Vader was his pupil, not Luke's father. Luke's father is never referred to by name in ANH, so for all we know, at the end of Episode III we might be led to believe that Luke's dad was some other Jedi. Like Mace Windu.

    Basically, it just comes down to this: If GL wants to keep the secret, fine - just make sure it's revealed when Vader says it in ESB, not from the dialog between him and Ben in ANH.
  7. johnpgreen Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 9, 1999
    star 1
    After watching TPM there's no reason not to think that the Emperor in ROTJ is Sidious and not Palpatine at all. The Emperor is never reffered to as Palpatine within the movie. WE know that the Emperor is Palpy because it's the same actor and we know the backstory, have read the novels, etc. But if you just watch TPM and then JEDI there's nothing that can eliminate the possibility that Palpy was offed by Sidy and Sidy took over to become Empy.

    We all know that's not true, but when you say it's not revealed that Sidy is Palpy in TPM you also have to keep in mind that Empy's name is never given in ROTJ.

    Now, back the "Vader's identity" secret. I don't care if the secret is kept or revealed - I only hope it's done right. If GL attempts to keep Vader's identity hidden at the end of Episode III, I just hope it STAYS hidden until ESB. If GL tries to hide his identity, there is plenty of dialog in ANH that could give it away (i.e. Vader and Ben's conversation when they duel.) If GL hides Vader's identity, but doesn't take into account the dialog from ANH, then the audience will figure out that Vader is Anakin right then and there. Thus, the surprise of ESB will be ruined in ANH. If there's any chance that the surprise will be ruined before ESB, then GL SHOULD reveal it in Episode III. And the only way to make the audience believe that Vader might not be Anakin is for Obi-Wan to take on another apprentice in Episode III, after Anakin leaves him. This new apprentice would ALSO have to turn to the darkside, and at the end of Episode III the audience would have to be given some reason to think he's alive. If these events do not happen, when Vader says to Ben in ANH "When I left you I was but the learner, now I am the master" the audience will know that Vader is Anakin. If Obi-Wan only ever has Anakin as an apprentice, then we'll know in ANH that Vader is Anakin, whether or not GL tries to hide the secret. This being the case, I'd rather GL give us the best possible story that satisfies us even if it gives away Vader's identity, than struggle to write around the dialog in ANH that would give the secret away.

    And I don't want to see Obi-Wan with another Padawan. If anything, I can see his failure with Anakin as a reason why he would go into hiding.

    Also, keep in mind that in ANH we don't know Luke's last name is Skywalker until he tells Princess Leia on the Death Star. Ben tell's Luke that Vader was his pupil, not Luke's father. Luke's father is never referred to by name in ANH, so for all we know, at the end of Episode III we might be led to believe that Luke's dad was some other Jedi. Like Mace Windu.

    Basically, it just comes down to this: If GL wants to keep the secret, fine - just make sure it's revealed when Vader says it in ESB, not from the dialog between him and Ben in ANH.
  8. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    http://dave.itsgames.com/gt.jpg I like the different angle you present Johnpgreen, however, do you really think people might suspect Luke is the son of Mace Windu?
  9. Gomer 1 Kenobi Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 1999
    http://dave.itsgames.com/gt.jpg I just picked up the latest Star Wars Insider (with Mara Jade on the cover), and there is a blurb about a book to be released that "bridges the gap" between Episodes I and II. (Page 13)

    Rogue Planet will chronicle the continuing adventures of young Obi-Wan Kenobi and his first apprentice, Anakin Skywalker, picking up after the events of Episode I and leading up to episode II.Could it be that Anakin is simply Obi-Wan's first and only pupil? Or could the fact that they designated Anakin as the "first apprentice" imply there will be a second?

    This is going to be incredible!
  10. Gomer 1 Kenobi Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 1999
    http://dave.itsgames.com/gt.jpg Doublepost

    [This message has been edited by Gomer 1 Kenobi (edited 03-01-2000).]
  11. Gomer 1 Kenobi Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 1999
    http://dave.itsgames.com/gt.jpg Wazzzup?
  12. Han Solo's Cousin Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2000
    Although this is a little late in the game for a post here, I felt that I needed to add my two cents....and it has to do with all of your moms. What do most of our mothers live for day in and day out? Soap Operas. In these cheesy romance programs, half of the fun stems from already knowing what is going to happen and waiting for the other characters to figure it out themselves! In fact, if one were to look at the works of Kurosawa (sp?) one of Lucas' most prominent influences, one would find that same "all knowing" soap opera point of view.

    I read through this entire thread and found twelve pages of great ideas and intelligent comments and when it all comes down to it I think I have to agree with the majority of comments made by Chyren.
  13. Obi-Wan McCartney Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 17, 1999
    star 5
    I loved this old thread. Back to the top!
  14. AL Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1998
    star 5
    And what a relevant and venerable deed you have carried out. Thank You, thank you so much.
  15. Primetime_Jedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 21, 2000
    star 4
    What a great debate this is between two JC notables--Gomer-T and Chyren. At least it started between them. I've only read the first page.

    In case this hasn't been mentioned here yet, I'm pretty sure GL said (don't have the reference) that we would feel sorry for Vader when Ep.IV starts. Wouldn't this imply that we know it's Anakin turned to the dark side?
  16. Obi-Wan McCartney Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 17, 1999
    star 5
  17. Darth Mace Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 1999
    star 4
    "Where did you dig up this old fossil?!?!"
  18. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    Wow Boris, I thought this thread was long gone.

    I agree with you completely, I was just illustrating that it COULD be done. I am sure if Lucas attempts this he will come up with something much more plausable.

    That is why he is Lucas, and I am just his fan.
  19. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    Primetime Jedi:

    Because we have seen the classic trilogy we will already know Anakin is vader when we see III.

    George has recently said that he intends the films to be seen in order numbered, and that he was really finishing these prequels for the 10 year old boy who doesn't exist yet.

    This was in that Robin Williams interveiw.
  20. Darth Mace Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 1999
    star 4
    "George has recently said that he intends the films to be seen in order numbered, and that he was really finishing these prequels for the 10 year old boy who doesn't exist yet."

    Do you have a source? I know this has always been 'assumed' by most, but I have never heard it officially. I do recall interviews/articles/etc. where GL has stated that he is making the PT so that the 6 movies CAN be viewed in order, 1-6. However, this could simply mean that everything will make sense and flow together if you watch 1-6. But, IMO, this is not necessarily the same as saying that you SHOULD view the movies in order, 1-6. I'm not trying to bring up a 1,2,3,4,5,6 or 4,5,6,1,2,3 debate, I'm just curious to know exactly what GL has said on the matter.
  21. Obi-Wan McCartney Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 17, 1999
    star 5
    There was a thread brought up about the proper order to view the movies, and if Lucas DOES in fact spoil the ESB surprise, then when I have kids, and they turn 10, I will create an order for viewing them, but I will make sure that whatever order I pick, Episode III comes after ESB.

    Like, GodfatherII style (father son parallel)
    TPM
    ANH
    EpisodeII
    ESB
    Episode III
    ROTJ

    OR, rather, TPM, Episode II, ANH, ESB, Episode III, and finally ROTJ.

    However, I hope Lucas keeps the secret. People seem to have a hard time understanding that the OT focus was never on Anakin, but on Luke. The story shifts from Obi-wan-Anakin-Amidala to Luke-Han-Leia. (And, both trilogies have the venerable old timer who leads but gets offed.)

    The part that really sold me on this theory is when Gomer mentioned how Vader would say "Obi-wan never told me what happened to your father..." and we would expect him to say "Obi-wan, killed your father." that's when Anakin comes back and drops the bomb. Wow, i can't wait to watch ESB agan.
  22. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    There was an audio only internet inteveiw conducted by Robin Williams recently.

    Geroge didn't exaclty word that like I said.

    He mentioned the eventual DVD, and he was saying that eventually, people will have all of the films, and they CAN see them in order. He said that basically to augment his contention that this is not about individual films, it is about one large 14-16 hour film.

    The bit about making these for the 10 year old who doesn't exist yet is almost verbatim what he said though.
  23. Primetime_Jedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 21, 2000
    star 4
    Go-Mer, what about what you said about Neeson filming for EpII. When did this happen???

    EDIT: I'm a dweeb. This is in response to a different thread! Well, the question still stands. (maybe you answered it in the other thread.)
  24. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    I saw a blurb about it on TFN. Someone had linked to it from one of these threads. It seemed to be a confirmation from his representative, but I am not entirely sure it was legit. I thought it was, but does anyone know for sure?
  25. Obi-Wan McCartney Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 17, 1999
    star 5
    I saw on 'upcomingmovies.com' that he said he wouldn't be back for II, but hopefully for III.
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