PT Shmi's Virgin Birth?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Neomic, Jun 21, 2013.

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  1. Neomic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 21, 2013
    I'm watching Episode III right now as I work on an editorial piece for my website, and something occured to me...a possible theory.

    When Sen. Palpatine is explaining the legend of Darth Plagius, he gives Anakin a smirk when he mentions that he could influence the midi-chlorians to create life. I'd never made this connection before and I don't know if it's ever been discussed here, but is it possible that Plagius was responsible for Shmi's virgin birth of Anakin?
  2. Iron_lord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    This has been speculated a lot.

    I think Lucas may have said something about The Force creating Anakin to counter Plagueis's meddling- though I like the notion that Plagueis's meddling was the medium the Force worked through in order to create the destroyer of the Sith.

    Evil being its own downfall is a common concept.
  3. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    In the Plagueis novelization, Plagueis seemed shocked and outright panicked at Anakin's existence so I'm going with no, that the Force did it, maybe in reaction to Plagueis' experiments.
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  4. PiettsHat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4
    In regards to the films, this point is left ambiguous. I believe at one point in rough drafts, Lucas considered having Palpatine explicitly tell Anakin this and that he should "think of him as his father." Now, Palpatine may have been lying to manipulate Anakin even then. Of course, since it wasn't included in the films and it is contradicted by the EU, then its canonicity is debatable.

    The intention to have the audience think that Palpatine could be Anakin's father/creator is definitely there though.
  5. d_arblay Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2005
    star 4
    Yep it's completely up to you. Palpatine merely indicates it as a possibility. But lots of things are possible. If the theory thrills you, go with it. If it upsets you (as it did me to some degree when it was first speculated) dismiss it. That said, if they were to bring Plagueis in as the new villain in Episode 7, it would narritively make more sense to reveal it as being true. That said, I originally interpreted "creating life" to be an abstract description of "preventing death", which isn't all that absurd.

    Important to note that, in the film, Anakin never questions it. So he's either ignorant to the possibility or simply doesn't invest in it. I think Lucas originally wanted to reveal such a thing to be true to have some sense of symmetry with Vader's reveal in ESB. But somewhere down the road he had second thoughts (perhaps he was worried it might negate the prophecy or see a backlash from fans). He clearly liked the idea so much that he kept the notion in the movies, but left it ambiguous enough to create speculation.
    Last edited by d_arblay, Jun 22, 2013
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  6. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    In my head canon, Shmi had a one night stand and didn't want anyone to know; her "there was no father" was code for "none of your damn business, Jedi." :p
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  7. Zapdos Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 7, 2013
    star 5
    I came in here to say that she wasn't a virgin, just embarrased/covering it up, but I got beaten to the punch
  8. Legolas Skywalker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 6
    Lot's of speculation on this topic.
  9. Lazy Storm Trooper Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 18, 2012
    star 4
    It was Cad Bane who is the father.
  10. Legolas Skywalker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 6
    Now there's a twist if u ever saw one
  11. d_arblay Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2005
    star 4
    It might have been interesting if Palpatine had actually met Shmi years earlier and had a brief relationship with her.. she discovered who he really was and therefore kept it Anakin's identity a secret from Qui-Gon, hoping to see Anakin better himself. Then both Palpatine and Anakin's abilities would be officially off the chart. As it is, Palpatine is just "very powerful" but we never establish quite how much. But I guess it works better having The Force create Anakin off it's own back. The other way is drifting into soap-opera territory :p
    Last edited by d_arblay, Jun 22, 2013
  12. JEDI-RISING Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 15, 2005
    star 3
    there seems to be going back and forth on this issue. First in TPM Anakin seems to be a savior...then in ROTS it's hinted that the Sith created him....then in the Darth Plagueis novel it seemed like DP's meddling in the Force caused the Force to create Anakin as a response. IDK, seems like whatever to shock us at the time. It makes the most sense though that if Anakin was The Chosen One that he was created by the Force in response to the rise of the Dark Side and the Sith.
    Last edited by JEDI-RISING, Jun 23, 2013
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  13. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    He did say at one point that he thought the Force created Anakin, but he didn't say it was in response to Plagueis' meddling.
  14. Sistros Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2010
    star 6
    I agree with Anakinfan on this issue,

    Shmi just didn't want to indulge her private life in front of a complete stranger.

    So she humoured him, works for me.
  15. Lady_Misty Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 21, 2007
    star 4
    As a slave Shmi might not have been a virgin but the Force could have created Anakin in her.

    I doubt that she would have lied about his origins.

    I saw a fic where Cliegg Lars was Anakin's father, another where it was implied that Qui-Gon was Anakin's father. There was one where Shmi and her husband had broken a taboo and so her husband was erased from everyone's memory and all records. It was as if he never existed. The only problem was that Skywalker was his last name and not her's. All of these made little to no sense.

    If the Sith created Anakin it is amusing that they created the being that destroyed them.
  16. Reveen Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 4, 2012
    star 3
    If I wanted to get people off my back about my personal life there are a ton of other excuses I'd use before claiming to be the Virgin Mary. But jedi are pretty damn gullible so whatever.
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  17. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    It is possible and has been discussed for many years.:p

    And welcome to the Boards!:)

    ***

    I'm going to leave this open for now...

    This basically boils down to belief, do you trust Shmi's story? Or Palpatine's?
    [face_mischief]
  18. Sophdeon Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 2010
    That is the impression I also had after reading the novel. To be honest, I thought that the novel heavily hinted that Anakin's birth was in reaction to Plagueis' experiments, but that could have just been Plagueis' interpretation or my own interpretation. Either way, I thought of Anakin's birth as being a slap to the face for Plagueis.

    Plagueis: I'm awesome and the Sith shall rule! I shall make even the Force bend to my will!
    The Force: No thanks. How about I give you the Chosen One instead? I think he'll make a nice "too bad" gift.
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  19. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    I thought Plagueis did it by accident and failed to realize what happened...

    then he freaked out when he heard the details of Anakin's origin story.
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  20. Jedi Gunny Yahtzee Host

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    May 20, 2008
    star 8
    Well hey, it looked like Shmi certainly had an interest in Qui-Gon. :p

    Erm . . . I mean . . . uh, yeah, it probably was some Sith meddling that brought Anakin about. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction, in this case.
    Last edited by Jedi Gunny, Jun 24, 2013
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  21. Michael McKean Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 5, 2013
    star 1
    There isn't really a definite answer to this. Judging by the screenplay and perhaps the novelizations, I think Lucas intended to ignite some food for thought in the audience.
    On another note, I can't help comparing Shmi's Virgin birth to Mary's Virgin birth of Jesus Christ. Both children would grow to be highly significant in their respective world histories.
  22. Dranem Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    star 1
    I just always assumed it had to do with Lucas' adherence to creating modern mythologies rooted in common archetypes. The virgin birth of a god-like figure predates Christianity and can be found in ancient Egypt and other religions and ancient fables. It would be neat to find out definitively from George Lucas himself what the connection was.

    Here is an excerpt from an interview Lucas did with Bill Moyer regarding the themes of religions and myths in Star Wars that might shed some light:

    http://hollywoodinsiders.net/articles/george_lucas_illuminati.html
  23. The Hellhammer 7SA Forum Interrogator

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 2012
    star 5
    I actually like that this question has multiple angles of interpretation.
    In our quest for "definitive answers" we fans tend to sometimes forget that a bit of mystery and unknown adds to the enjoyment of a story. Often, less is more - especially when dealing with myths such as SW.
    My personal version is that Plageuis did try to create something, but most certainly didn't expect things to go the way they did. But I would prefer never to know the "canon answer."
  24. d_arblay Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2005
    star 4
    Jesus' virgin birth was neither the first nor last apparent such birth in religion/mythology. Lucas is heavily referencing several sources with that one.
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
  25. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    And access to a time machine.
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