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PT Shmi's Virgin Birth?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Neomic, Jun 21, 2013.

  1. Allana_Rey

    Allana_Rey Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Anakin should've simply just had a father. I mean what was the point of him not having one? It didn't add up to the story line or anything...
     
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  2. PiettsHat

    PiettsHat Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 1, 2011
    Thematically, I think it's a way to demonstrate (in part) Anakin's search for a father figure and how he tries to force Obi-Wan into that role after his first "father," Qui-Gon, died. It also explains why Palpatine wields such influence over Anakin's worldview. A lot of Star Wars is concerned with the search for fathers and the role they play in their children's lives. By Anakin literally not having a father, it emphasizes how bereft he is of that important connection.
     
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  3. Visivious Drakarn

    Visivious Drakarn Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 20, 2013
    I've been reading those speculations ever since 2005., that Plagueis or Palpy are Anakin's father.
    No.
    Anakin is a child of the Force, Plagueis is just a story to turn Anakin or to get him interested due to his history of no father.
     
  4. snelson

    snelson Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 21, 2005
    did you read the book darth plagueis visivious? it states darth p and palpatine's expierament failed the force reacted by conceiving Anakin.
     
  5. The Hellhammer

    The Hellhammer Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 4, 2012
    Heheheh.

    Shmi's virgin Bith.
     
  6. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 9 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    It would have worked just as well in that regard for the father to have abandoned him and Shmi though.
     
  7. clone3131

    clone3131 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 11, 2004
    No one said Shmi was a virgin [face_whistling] [face_dancing]

    -C
     
  8. Darth Jahan

    Darth Jahan Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Jun 25, 2013
    There is a theory in which Darth Plagueis impregnated Shmi through the dark side, so that Palpatine would have an apprentice. As you can see, we went through two to get to Anakin, so if this theory is true if was obviously a fail.
     
  9. PiettsHat

    PiettsHat Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 1, 2011
    My guess is that Lucas wanted the Sith to have a hand in creating Anakin -- whether it was directly through experimentation or the Force's action in response to the Sith's meddling. It provides a bit of dramatic irony that the Sith are responsible for the very thing that destroyed them.

    I also suspect that Anakin's lack of a biological father is also meant to be symbolic as well.
     
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  10. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2004
    To quote Lucas:

    "Christ is one of a long, long, long line of heroes who don't have fathers. There's a long tradition of mythological heroes."

    "There are a lot of Greek gods who came down [ and impregnated mortal women ], and so the heroes didn't have fathers. Whether it's Hindu, Chinese or Middle Eastern, all the mythological heroes didn't have fathers. The fathers were the gods. Now in this particular case, the gods happen to be a life-form that allows a cell to divide."
     
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  11. Merkual

    Merkual Jedi Knight star 4

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    Jun 3, 2013
    did you read the book darth plagueis visivious? it states darth p and palpatine's expierament failed the force reacted by conceiving Anakin
    ---------------------

    EU is not absolute fact in this forum, just one possibility of many others.
     
  12. Darth Nerdling

    Darth Nerdling Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 20, 2013
    Come on everyone! Isn't the answer obvious? Anakin is Lando's love child. Nobody can resist an old smoothy like Lando, and Shmi's no different. In fact, if you don't know who someone's father is in the SW universe just assume it's Lando.


    Now onto the Darth Plagueis theory. I read the "Darth Plagueis" novel, and I don't think it ever states directly that Anakin's conception is the reaction to what Plagueis is doing. Instead it is merely very strongly implied.

    I may be getting the order slightly off, but in the novel, Plagueis practices killing and bringing back to life a captured Force-user, then he and Palpatine meditate to bend the Force to follow their will, then Plagueis attempts to create life but fails. Years later, they discover that around the same time as they were doing this Anakin was conceived in a virgin birth.

    I think the novel says that they believe Anakin's creation is a response to what they were doing, but I'm not sure about that.

    I also don't think the novel ever makes it clear what the Force is responding to exactly -- Plagueis practicing cheating death by killing and bringing back to life the captured guy, Palpatine and Plagueis trying to bend the Force in the direction of the dark side, or Plagueis trying to create life.

    Hope this helps, and if anyone can remember the novel better, please fill in more.
     
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  13. EvilQ

    EvilQ Jedi Knight star 1

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    Feb 8, 2013
    And so an entire religion was born, which had a ridiculously detrimental impact on the development of western galactic civilization...
     
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  14. Zapdos

    Zapdos Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 7, 2013
    This is going to make my whole life easier. I'm going to take it a bit further though if you don't mind.

    "Dude, someones sneeking around with my sister"
    "Probably Lando"

    "WHO ATE THE LAST COOKIE?"
    "Probably Lando".

    " *kha* No, I am your father *pshh* "
    "Lol, Lando? You Vader?"
     
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  15. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 9 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    If Anakin were the child of an "old smoothie," his delivery in the fireplace scene would have been a hell of lot better.
     
  16. ThatsNoPloKoon

    ThatsNoPloKoon Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Apr 24, 2013
    I always forgot Anakin had a virgin birth. Which I guess goes to show how ridiculous and inconsequential it is to the overall plot.
     
  17. d_arblay

    d_arblay Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 26, 2005
    [face_shame_on_you]

    It's by no means inconsequential.... and while it is ridiculous in practical terms, Star Wars is essentially a mythological tale, incase you hadn't noticed. In religion and mythology, such things are a very common element used to define one's significance to any particular cause. That you forgot this plot point, given it's significance in the first film, suggests only one of two things - a) that you have watched the film relatively few times or at no point recently, or b) that your capacity for memory is perhaps less than average.
     
  18. rumsmuggler

    rumsmuggler Jedi Grand Master star 7

    Registered:
    Aug 31, 2000
    indeed..
     
  19. d_arblay

    d_arblay Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 26, 2005
    And he wouldn't have put that lousy John Williams music on the stereo (silly, Anakin). It would have been The Best of Barry White. Padme would have been his right there and then. ;)
     
  20. Reveen

    Reveen Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 4, 2012
    Can't be Lando, if he had shown up on Tattooine that far back why is it still a craphole when we come to it later?

    It's something you see in myth. Star Wars is myth. Therefore it's good. If you don't think so you must be dumb.

    Great level of discourse we got going around here, good talk.
     
  21. ThatsNoPloKoon

    ThatsNoPloKoon Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Apr 24, 2013
    I mean watching the films when I was younger I completely forgot that plot point. I find it pretty inconsequential. Anakin could easily have still been the Chosen One without a stupid "the Force did it" virgin birth. And yes I get that Lucas wants Star Wars to be a modern myth and all but some things just do not work practically from myth to the Star Wars universe. Virgin Birth and Padme dying of grief being two of them.
     
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  22. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 9 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    I was familiar with Campbell and how Lucas drew from his work by the time TPM premiered and I still thought that plot point was ridiculous.

    There is no reason that Anakin could not have been simply a very gifted Jedi who made terrible choices and rectified them later. That would have made a great story without all the "he can't help it, he was meant to do this" bull**** thrown in, in fact the "lesson" from the story would have been better. If Star Wars is a kids' story--do we want kids to grow up helpless, believing that they have no control over what choices they make because their "destiny" controls them? Or do we want them to believe that they always have the option of making the right choice, and they shouldn't claim that "the devil made me do it" if they make the wrong one?

    "Mythology has Chosen Ones and destiny" does not make those concepts good, even for a Joseph Campbell follower.
     
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  23. d_arblay

    d_arblay Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 26, 2005
    No you conveniently misrepresent the point being made. I was referring to why it was there and the thinking behind it - the deliberate imagery and parallels it produces in helping to paint Star Wars a particular type of story. I never said it made it great. Equally, I never said anyone who disagreed with it was "dumb".
     
  24. Darth Nerdling

    Darth Nerdling Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 20, 2013
    I think the virgin birth also serves a more practical purpose. It puts all the focus on Anakin. If Anakin had a father, we'd want to know his history, we'd want to know if he's really powerful in the Force, we'd want to know how much Anakin's personality is like his and how similar Anakin's power in the Force is, etc., etc. Then we'd probably get a novel about his father, and then we'd learn about his father's parents, and then we'd probably get a novel about them. With the virgin birth thing, the focus remains entirely on Anakin.
     
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  25. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2004
    Well, no, it doesn't; it is presented as what Plagueis apparently thinks has happened. We don't get a word-of-God statement directly from the author telling us it's accurate, since everything is character perception.

    The middle one, I thought.

    Anakin always had the option of making the right choice during the PT, so the films do not promote such "lessons". Right from the start in TPM the trilogy was already emphasizing the importance of choice on Anakin's part. The fact that he did not make the right choice in ROTS was an inevitability guaranteed by the fact that it was a prequel and that we knew it was in the same continuity as the OT and thus Anakin had to become Vader. That fact, an out-of-universe consideration inherent to the nature of prequels, does not somehow mean that Anakin had no choice in the matter from an in-universe perspective. For if Anakin is alleged to have been a character unable to make right choices, how do we explain ROTJ?
     
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