Should Augusta National have to admit women?

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by Coolguy4522, Sep 3, 2002.

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  1. Coolguy4522 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Dec 21, 2000
    star 4
    Link Here

    Furor rages about whether the Augusta National Golf Club, a private club that hosts the Masters Golf Tournament, should admit women as members.

    This is something that I think would be a good topic for discussion, and I got it cleared by KW, so I hope it works

    Is what the feminists doing right? On labor day I was trying to find something to watch on the TV in the middle of the day without cable so I saw some lady making a remark about it. So what do you think on this issue?

  2. Yodave27 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 2, 2001
    star 4
    It's a private club, it can pick and choose whoever it wants to be in its organization. Should the Knights of Columbus allow non-Catholics? Not if they don't want to. Does the Arab League have to allow non-Arabs into its organization? Not if they don't want to.

    These clubs accept no money from the government, thus shouldn't be allowed to be forced to change their rules.

    I don't see what all the hubub is about...
  3. Herman Snerd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 1999
    star 6
    There's not too much to get excited about in that article.

    You have a private organization that only allows male members versus a women's organization that's properly and peacefully trying to get them to change their rules.

    Unfortunately for the AGNC, they seem to have a pretty dim bulb calling their shots.
  4. Ramius Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2002
    star 3
    I agree with Yodave27
  5. BroodMcEto Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 14, 2002
    star 4
    I say live and let live.

    I play Jedi Outcast online, and if I join a server and find it's no fun, I leave. I find another server and join. I do this until I find a place that is fun. If it's no fun, I leave.

    This is an idea that seems to escape most people. Guess what? There are other places to play golf. There are other plces to have fun. There are other clubs that would love to have you if you meet their requirements.

    Should this club have the right to keep certain poeple out? Hell yes they should. If they don't allow women, then so be it. Women golfers unite and start an all-female club. Guess what? Men will just laugh, but only the dumb ones will want to tear down the all-female one.

    Clubs serve one purpose; to allow persons with like interests to gather. This club is a golf club for men. That's it. Do Star Wars clubs have to let StarTrek fans in? Nope. Read the sign. Find another place to play. Besides, what fun would it be for the women if all the men made it hard for them to enjoy their new found conquered land? I know if I was a woman and I had to endure jests, chides, and lewd commets by men, I'd leave. Simple.

    Treat others as you want to be treated. If they don't play fair (in your eyes) then leave. Easy.

    next.
  6. dustchick Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2000
    star 1
    Obviously, as a private club, Augusta has the right to admit whomever they want. The women's organization has a right to protest as well.

    The real question is, should the PGA allow one of its most prestigious tournaments be played at a venue that discriminates? (Isn't this the same venue that had to change its rules so that Tiger Woods could play there?)

    I say that while Augusta has the right to stand by its traditions, a professional sports organization who willingly takes the money of both genders and all races to attend its events should protect the rights of all who enjoy the sport. And, by playing a tournament there, the PGA is promoting the venue and allying itself with it. Either the PGA should pressure Augusta to admit women or the PGA should leave.

    My opinion. Next?


  7. scum&villainy Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 1999
    star 4
  8. tenorjedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 17, 2000
    star 5
    While I think it's stupid that they don't allow women, you've got to admit, people that force themselves into organizations through coersion are ********s. Maybe they're wrong, but you shouldn't take it upon yourself to ruin peoples fun just because you disagree with their ideals. If it's not hurting anyone let them have their ways, make fun of them if you like but don't be an ass just because they are too.
  9. Darth_SnowDog Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2001
    star 4
    I think any organization that discriminates on parameters that have nothing to do with the actual qualifications required for participation (i.e. ability to play golf) is doing itself and society a disservice.

    However, I would not waste my dollars on becoming a member of such a prejudiced organization, and I would encourage all women married to golfers to encourage their golf-playing husbands to join them in support and boycott such an organization.
  10. Rebecca191 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 1999
    star 6
    I argee with dustchick.
  11. Rikalonius Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 26, 2001
    star 3
    Why don't the women start their own club. Why don't they forge ahead with and make their own path instead of always trying to jump in. Women say they want equality, but they really don't. They want to be treated differently. If at work, now that I work with women, I treated them the same way I treated the men, I would be in big trouble. They would view it as sexual harrassment.

    Agusta hasn't always had this reputation, it all started somewhere. Now that it is this recognizable institution, everyone wants to jump on. Again, women golfers should go someplace and start their own club, hell build their own course that is for women only. Women have women only clubs all over the country.

    I remember this Dennis the Menace Cartoon that came out when women were clamoring for the combat exclusion laws to be lifted.

    It had Dennis and his friend in their club house. and the club house had a sign that read NO GIRLS Well of course Margaret sees this and launches into a 5 panel tyraid about all the things women have accomplished. In the final panel, Dennis, looking unimpressed says, "That's great Margaret, women can do anything they want. Except be in our club."

  12. Darth_SnowDog Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2001
    star 4
    "Hootie", the ANGC chair, sure sounds like a complete idiot. I'm going to write CBS and let them know I won't be watching any of their programming at all if they air the Augusta tournament.
  13. Rikalonius Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 26, 2001
    star 3
    While we are at it, let's make women compete against men in all sports.

  14. I-Got-Gypped Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 26, 2002
    I think that Augusta National should be allowed to maintain their current policies. While they might not be "politically correct", Augusta National is a private club (no matter what the head of the women's organization says), and, as such, has the right to set membership rules.

    However, if, by some chance, Augusta National is forced to knuckle under, I as a man demand the following things happen:

    1. "Men's Studies" is instituted at major universities to go along with "Women's Studies" programs.
    2. "Men's Student Union" becomes a campus organization at colleges and universities across the nation, forming a counterpoint to existing "Women's Student Unions".
    3. Men are given the option to use the women's restroom, as having said restroom be women-only is discriminatory.
    4. Men are allowed to work out a "women's only" gyms, and go during "women's only" hours, because the policy discriminates against men.
    5. Clubs and bars are forced to institute "Men's Night", where men get in free and get drink specials.

    It's all ridiculous, of course, but the continuing infringements into male organizations by women's groups are ridiculous as well.

    They won't rest until there are no organizations or places where men can go and just be. It's like some sort of bizarre penance for the years without universal female suffrage. As a result, now, men have to pay.

    Not only does Augusta National have the right to be exclusive, it has the obligation. If their posture falters, then the ruthless march of women's organizations will continue, to the detriment of sensibility and reasonable privacy.
  15. chibiangi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 16, 2002
    star 4
    (Isn't this the same venue that had to change its rules so that Tiger Woods could play there?)

    If that is true, then Tiger Woods is a big, fat hypocrite.
  16. chibiangi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 16, 2002
    star 4
    1. "Men's Studies" is instituted at major universities to go along with "Women's Studies" programs.

    A lot of school's are already implementing male studies courses. I certainly would have taken it if I could have.


    2. "Men's Student Union" becomes a campus organization at colleges and universities across the nation, forming a counterpoint to existing "Women's Student Unions".


    My school had a "Student's Union".


    3. Men are given the option to use the women's restroom, as having said restroom be women-only is discriminatory.


    ehh, why would you want to use the women's toilet? You know we have to wait in lines :D


    4. Men are allowed to work out a "women's only" gyms, and go during "women's only" hours, because the policy discriminates against men.


    Hehhehe, so you want to see the sweaty fat women and lesbians who don't want to be bothered by men??


    5. Clubs and bars are forced to institute "Men's Night", where men get in free and get drink specials.


    Hey, I agree with you, but that would be putting a burden on bars since we know lady's night is only a ploy to get more women into the bar and to get them to drink more so that they will go home with men :D



  17. Herman Snerd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 1999
    star 6
    The real question is, should the PGA allow one of its most prestigious tournaments be played at a venue that discriminates?

    I'm not real sure about this, but I don't think the Master's Tournament is a PGA event. I seem to remember from watching it in the past that there are different rules at the Master's, which suggests that's it's not a PGA event, otherwise it'd be played under PGA rules.
  18. BroodMcEto Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 14, 2002
    star 4
    herman and dustchick have the right question. It's not that the club can be discriminatory (read: picky) as to who it lets in, but at the same time, I say live and let live.

    The PGA should not hold a tournament there unless it agrees to let all people allowed by PGA rules in. That means everyone who can join the PGA can join the club. Pretty simple I think. If they don't want to change their club, then they don't get to play with the PGA.

    Not many businesses (PGA is a business, folks) play by these rules. Starbucks is one of the few that I know of. They used to use Salvation Army for donating, until they got into trouble. I think it's simple, if you can't play with them or they can't play with you, then go your seperate ways.

    Oh, and does anyone here realize that golf is an acronym for Gentlemen Only, Ladies Forbidden?
  19. farraday Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 7
    I thought it was because all the other four letter words were taken.

    Should Augusta admit women? Yes. Should they have to? No. Should the PGA not hold any events there until women can? Probably.
  20. ImperialFC Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2001
    star 1
    Oh, and does anyone here realize that golf is an acronym for Gentlemen Only, Ladies Forbidden?

    That's not where it comes from, check out this site:
    Snopes' Urban Legends: Golf

  21. dustchick Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2000
    star 1
    To address an earlier question, the PGA does not run the Masters, but it is recognized as an official event and the money earned counts towards a player's PGA tour total.

    Women can play golf at Augusta, but cannot become members. (Guess female money is good enough for greens fees.) There was not a black member at Augusta until 1990.

    (source: CNN)

  22. Uruk-hai Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 26, 2000
    star 5
    If it's a private organisation, that accepts no tax-payer funded benefits, then they should be allowed to do what they want.

    If they accept any sort of government funding, women must be allowed to join.

  23. DARTHPIGFEET Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2001
    star 4
    Okay first off it is a private club.

    What do I think about that? I don't care. It's an old custom of secret clubs/secret societies which was a big conspiracy theory in American History back in the 19th century where U.S. Presidents and such were thought to be members.

    I don't like this private club stuff. I think if a person can afford a membership and can prove to be a worthy member who can contribute something then I saw if they are a woman, black, white then do it. To exclude someone because they aren't like all other 100 members then that is wrong and it's segregation. Whites only ring a bell. Augusta national might as well put up a sign that says

    "Non Whites or women need not apply"

    I thought by now we could get away with this BS which this is all it is. It's BS. I think if a women can prove and beat a member of that club in a round of golf then they are just as welcome to that club as any man.

    I have always and will always be against seperating people based on religion, race etc. People are people. We all don't look the same, we all don't talk the same, we all don't smile the same, etc. I HATE putting people in categories with the exception of putting people who commit crimes for a career and putting them in the category of career criminals. I don't like this African American, Latino American, Asian American. It's all BS and I hate it.
  24. skawookiee Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 12, 2000
    star 4
    As a native Augustan, there are several things that make this a non-issue.

    First of all, the Augusta National is closed for most of the year with tarps over the grass. The only time people ever go there is for the Masters. Even the male "members of the club" don't play ther very often. It's more of an elite golf club than anything else.

    Second of all, if you're not a member of the club, you're not allowed on the parking lot unless it's Master's week. I don't think it really has anything to do with discriminating against women, it's just discriminating against anyone who isn't a member of the club. It's not that they only keep women out, they keep most other people out too. They're an equal opportunity excluder. They're a private club, and they only let their rich buddies in, and that's their perogative.

    I guess what I'm trying to say is that I don't see why a woman, or anyone else for that matter, would want to be a member at Augusta National.
  25. No blasters! Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 14, 2000
    star 4
    I think the question you've chosen to ask in this is quite revealing:

    "Is what the feminists doing right?"

    The obvious counter question is:

    "Is what Augusta National doing right?"

    And the answer to that is no. It is never right to exclude an entire segment of society based upon chromosomes, ancestral heritage or religious affiliation if it has no bearing on the group in question.

    What possible reason could you have for excluding approximately 52% of the population from a game that everyone is capable of playing?

    Tradition? If we followed that tired, old excuse women would still be excluded from the education system, blacks would still be slaves and only landowning white men would be allowed to vote.

    Not a very good reason.
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