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Should Barriss be redeemed?

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by StarWarsFan91, Mar 7, 2013.

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  1. StarWarsFan91

    StarWarsFan91 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 2008
    If she ever appears again in the future of TCW, should she be redeemed? Should she give up the darkside and strive to be a good person again?

    Or should she remain in the dark hole she has created for herself, and remain a evil dark jedi, for her remaining days?

    What do you think? Whatever your opinion is, explain why it should be.
     
  2. Jordan1Kenobi

    Jordan1Kenobi Host of Star Wars Character Contest star 6 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Sep 30, 2012
    I don't think the Jedi Council should accept her back as a Jedi, and I think she should be treated exactly the same as Ahsoka, and get whatever penalty Ahsoka was going to get, and if it's the death penalty, then so be it, it's only fair. But I think there's so much more that can be done with Barriss as a dark Jedi, so I hope she manages to escape somehow, maybe Sidious has plan for her and he'll get Tarkin to let her go.
    There was an idea in another thread where Barriss and Maul could team up somehow, that'd be cool to see, but probably won't happen. I think a Barriss and Ahsoka duel would be cool and Ahsoka having to make the decision to either kill her or hand her over to the Jedi.
     
  3. Valairy Scot

    Valairy Scot Backpacking One Pack a Day Mod of New Films star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Sep 16, 2005
    Once fall to the dark you do, no redemption is there.

    or so the PT Jedi believe wth no reason to believe otherwise
     
  4. StarWarsFan91

    StarWarsFan91 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 2008
    Agreed, however that doesn't mean Barriss can not turn over a new leaf.
     
  5. Narutakikun

    Narutakikun Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2012
    Who says she fell to the dark side?

    Who says she's evil?

    A misguided idealist, perhaps. But evil? No.
     
  6. Seerow

    Seerow Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 7, 2011
    I don't want her to be redeemed from this fallen Jedi who sees the corruption in the Republic Senate and her organization as a their military dogs who should be hung, every last one of them. I supposed you could redeem her into realizing the violence like blowing up the temple is the wrong way to do it and have her do thing more peacefully. Honestly, that's kinda boring. I'd rather she join up with Maul tricked into believing he wants to punished the corrupt while actually serving Sidious as the puppet master. Or maybe have more realize her speech is the truth and fall to rally to her cause.
     
  7. Jordan1Kenobi

    Jordan1Kenobi Host of Star Wars Character Contest star 6 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Sep 30, 2012
     
  8. Narutakikun

    Narutakikun Jedi Knight star 4

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    Nov 8, 2012
    Too thin a remark to hang anything on. I know that people really want that to be very meaningful, but.... no.
     
  9. QuangoFett

    QuangoFett Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 11, 2011
    All that line means is she's conscious of the darkness within her, an analysis which she extends to the entire Jedi Order. Even Filoni backs that up. She isn't a cackling maniac doing it all for the lulz. Whether she is a full on Dark Jedi or not is debatable.
     
  10. StarWarsFan91

    StarWarsFan91 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 2008
    Before we found out that the dark jedi was Barriss, Yoda explains that the "jedi" who caused those deaths has fallen to the darkside. This is a sign to the audience that whoever is truly behind the attacks is not following the lightside.

    A jedi who is still following the lightside, would not......

    1. Murder someone in an unjust/cold blooded manner, simply to cover up there own wrong (you might say that well Anakin murdered Dooku in cold blood, but that was obviously shown as a step towards the darkside).

    2. Set up a fellow jedi for a wrong said jedi didn't commit, a set up that could have lead to said jedi's death. Basically letting an innocent die for her wrong actions.

    3. Blow up those people over an ideology. Jedi can kill, and still stay on the jedi path, but the way she did it, and why she did it, was something a true jedi wouldn't do.

    It was kind of obvious that Barris had turned to the darkside, and she didn't have to wield red blades to show it.
     
    Original Oatmeal likes this.
  11. Circular Logic

    Circular Logic SWTV Interview Host star 4 VIP - Game Host

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    Mar 3, 2013
    Personally, I feel both scenarios can work as long as they make her a compelling character and she retains her disillusionment of the Jedi Order. If she ends up going the way of the Dark Side, as I've mentioned in the Barriss thread, the story that makes the most sense is to have her eventually escape and join a third party, either other dissident Jedi or Darth Maul as a proxy to Sidious (although a disguise is needed).

    A redemption arc is also feasible if like Seerow said, she realizes that her methods are wrong and attempts to self-correct before falling further into darkness. A possibility is a future confrontation with Ahsoka or Luminara, who convinces her to abandon her dark path. However, there is no way Barriss can ever return to the Jedi Order, she's past the point of no return. The best case scenario for a possible redemption is for her to become like Ahsoka or Ventress and completely abandon the war.
     
  12. Narutakikun

    Narutakikun Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2012
    Her simply being a darksider would drain all of the poignancy, meaning, and pathos out of her actions. At best, it would make the story nothing more than a repeat of Krell that simply retread the same territory, and at worst, it makes Barriss just another darksider villain of the week.

    Anyhow, "I think they suit me" is going to end up as the "Pull the building" of Clone Wars fandom - an offhand remark that doesn't have anywhere near the meaning that some people want to impute to it, blown out of proportion in order to try to prove an extremely questionable point.
     
    QuangoFett likes this.
  13. KenobiSkywalker

    KenobiSkywalker Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2012
    Hypothetically speaking*, if the Jedi accepted Barriss back into the order it would create more distrust between the Jedi and the Senate/general public wouldn't it?

    *I personally don't think they should go that route, but I could kind of see the writers trying it.
     
    Original Oatmeal likes this.
  14. Mia Mesharad

    Mia Mesharad Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    I would like to see her redeemed, myself.
    While I'm still not particularly thrilled or even sold on the motivations for her fall, Barriss does now open an opportunity to dig into the issues that were thrown about haphazardly at the end of The Wrong Jedi in a deeper and more fleshed out manner. I think back to reading the Republic comics for the first time and following the journey of Quinlan Vos as he was tempted by the dark side, let himself slip into a fall, and struggled back to the light in an arc that proved his character to be a true Jedi and one of the greatest characters in Star Wars. I think it would be fascinating if TCW could sort of imitate that story arc with Barriss; due to the differences in motivation, it wouldn't be an exact retread of Quinlan, but something in the same vein. She could struggle with what she hoped to do compared to what she's done, and the potential good she could actually do were she to see the light again. Barriss could face the reality that life isn't perfect, and the Jedi have been placed in a position that is flawed, but to concede to that and chose to allow yourself to become the thing you're supposed to be fighting against is never the way to go. She could be led back to the light, perhaps even by her former Master Luminara, ultimately culminating in her rejoining the Order a redeemed woman and a stronger, wiser Jedi.

    Sadly, I don't expect this to happen. I don't honestly expect to ever see her again outside of Separatist-esque cameos, and on the off chance that Barriss isn't relegated to a prison cell or something as disrespectful as an offscreen execution, we'll get an empty Ventress clone of an unrepentant female darksider. But considering Ahsoka's not around anymore, and Barriss only exists for the sake of Ahsoka in the writers' minds, what's the point in developing her further?
     
    Apophis_ likes this.
  15. Deputy Rick Grimes

    Deputy Rick Grimes Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2012
    Stay in the Dark Side
     
  16. Narutakikun

    Narutakikun Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2012
    Yoda is wrong about a lot of things during the Clone War. If he wasn't, the galaxy wouldn't have ended up with a Sith Lord running it.


    Unjust? The Jedi temple was a military base during a war. That makes it a completely legitimate target. As for unjust, see below...


    Innocent? Who was innocent? Letta, the woman who blew her own husband to smithereens? Ahsoka, who as a member of the Jedi Order fought in a war that Barriss came to believe was unjust? The Jedi, clones, and support personnel inside the Temple, all of whom were also directly participating in the war? Sorry, but nobody in that Temple was innocent, and neither was Ahsoka, Letta, or Anakin.

    The fact that Ahsoka finally came to understand that at the end of the arc is one reason why she left.

    The Jedi Order blow up a lot of people over ideology during the Clone War. The fact that it may be an ideology that Tom Kane has shouted that you should support doesn't change that fact.
     
    darth fluffy likes this.
  17. DavraCahan

    DavraCahan Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Mar 3, 2013
    I think it was a doppelganger Barriss who did all this. Someday, we'll find out that she was actually captured two seasons ago by some shadow organization of the Separatists and was replaced with a Force sensitive Clawdite.
     
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  18. Mia Mesharad

    Mia Mesharad Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Wow. I'm sorry but...wow. This is so off base I almost don't even know where to begin.

    First of all, let's not lose sight that not every Jedi in the Temple is a front-line General, or even serving in the GAR at all. There are healers, gardeners, archivists and librarians, cooks, meditative philosophers, humanitarians, and among others, children. Half of these have either never used a lightsaber, or never actually fought with a lightsaber. The Temple workers are also not there in a military capacity, instead performing such commonplace jobs as janitors and maintenance workers. None of these are military targets. None of these are legitimate targets of a proper military strike. Justifying their deaths as legitimate because they're in the Jedi Temple is about as patently inaccurate as justifying the deaths of the Twin Towers workers on 9/11 because they were American and, well, Al Qaeda was declaring war on America.
     
  19. QuangoFett

    QuangoFett Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 11, 2011
    Perhaps. It might be something she thought of spur-of-the-moment to intimidate Anakin into thinking he was dealing with a hardcore darksider.

    Or even a "protest" at how (in her perception) the Jedi think anyone who disagrees with them is an irredeemably evil monster, even if they have benign intentions and sincere beliefs that they're doing the right thing. So, why shouldn't she embrace the red lightsabres if they treat her like some sort of Sith?

    Barriss specifically targets a hangar full of Republic gunships, and she uses as her suicide bomb a nano-weapons technician. She doesn't actually target anyone who can't be defined as part of the war effort.
     
    darth fluffy likes this.
  20. Darth Ibonek

    Darth Ibonek Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 11, 2013
    Unless Filoni can create a mastermind storyline to redeem her, I don't see it happening. But I could see another storyline about her and possibility Luminara happening next season to tie up loose ends (whether it will be good or not is another matter).
     
  21. Narutakikun

    Narutakikun Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2012
    All of the people you mentioned are part of what is in real terms a military organization fighting in a war. Sorry, you don't get to participate in a war and then claim that you're just an innocent bystander.

    If children were in the Jedi Temple, it's because the Jedi use child soldiers. Sorry, but that's the sad truth of the situation.

    The proper 9/11 analog would be the Pentagon, not the Twin Towers. And yes, the Pentagon was a completely legitimate military target. The civilian 757 they hit it with wasn't, but the Pentagon itself was.
     
    darth fluffy likes this.
  22. Narutakikun

    Narutakikun Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2012
    Oh, don't get me wrong - I agree with you here totally.
     
  23. JackG

    JackG Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 15, 2011
    Maybe Quinlan can help her out, eh?
     
    Mia Mesharad likes this.
  24. Mia Mesharad

    Mia Mesharad Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    There are still logical flaws in the plan that make it injustifiable. Once Jackar had been dosed with the explosive nano-droids, he is now a walking bomb. Considering that we don't know whether the nano-droids were responsive to a trigger or a timer, there's so many ways this could have gone wrong: Jackar could've been out of place when the timer went off or when the detonator was activated, or any number of external factors could've set the droids off at any time and at any place within the Temple―for instance, the way a stray electrical charge could detonate C4―killing whoever was around indiscriminately. Not to mention that there could be any of a number of reasons why a non-military individual would be going through the hanger, like a youngling just off to sneak a look at the troopers or their gunships. And what of the Temple worker that was only there to clean the deck as he'd been doing for years before the Clone Wars ever started? The attack is not precise enough to bare any semblance of legitimacy, forgoing accuracy in favor of spectacle.
     
  25. Narutakikun

    Narutakikun Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2012
    If we were to follow that logic, no side in any war would ever be able to use any weapon, because you can never say for sure that some civilian won't be wandering by and end up getting hurt when you do. And the sad truth is, that does happen in war, a lot, no matter who is fighting who, and no matter how justified their cause or noble their intentions may be. The "good guys" have ended up doing terrible things to innocent people during even what we would call the most justified of wars.

    This is what war is, and why you don't go charging off into them half-cocked like the Jedi Order did.
     
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