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Should Barriss be redeemed?

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by StarWarsFan91, Mar 7, 2013.

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  1. JackG

    JackG Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 15, 2011
    Well the EU is open to retcon the crap out of TCW now. [face_coffee]
     
  2. rumblewagon

    rumblewagon Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 24, 2004
    Too late. Disney has gone Death Star on the PT like Alderaan. It's not there any more. It's been completely blown away.
     
  3. Heero_Yuy

    Heero_Yuy Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    I say good riddance. We've had more than enough of the PT era.
     
  4. Valairy Scot

    Valairy Scot Backpacking One Pack a Day Mod of New Films star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Sep 16, 2005
    Nah uh - more PT era!
     
  5. The Shadow Emperor

    The Shadow Emperor Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2012
    You wish.
     
  6. darth_mccartney

    darth_mccartney Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 3, 2008
    THIS :)
     
  7. Heero_Yuy

    Heero_Yuy Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    "Nuh uh!" "You wish!"

    LOL, brilliant rebuttles, guys! Next time, try looking at things more objectively.
     
    kubricklynch likes this.
  8. Valairy Scot

    Valairy Scot Backpacking One Pack a Day Mod of New Films star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Sep 16, 2005
    I'll post how I wish...and if I get more simple "more than enoughs" I'll just say "nuh uh" just to register my disagreement. If more of us had spoken up in the past, maybe there wouldn't be so many brainwashed folks thinking "everyone" hates the PT because few folks bothered to speak up, wanting to "keep the peace."

    BTW, what's with the "objectivity"? Personally, I want more PT. I'm not against more other eras as well. What do you wish me/others to say?
     
  9. Heero_Yuy

    Heero_Yuy Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    LOL, brainwashing. Must feel nice to make things up!
     
  10. Valairy Scot

    Valairy Scot Backpacking One Pack a Day Mod of New Films star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Sep 16, 2005
    Indeed. A side effect of being a fanficcer.
     
  11. The Shadow Emperor

    The Shadow Emperor Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2012
    He wants you to give in, say he's right and that everyone hates the PT.

    It'd be pretty funny if he wasn't being serious.
     
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
  12. Valairy Scot

    Valairy Scot Backpacking One Pack a Day Mod of New Films star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Sep 16, 2005
    Hmmm...when Hoth freezes over, as last I looked, I and a bunch of others make up "someones" and so "everyone hates the PT" is OBJECTIVELY incorrect.

    Did I satisfy the request for objectivity?
     
  13. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 9 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Which is why I asked in another thread why he feels that his opinion needs to be "objective fact" in order for him to feel that it's valid.

    It's his opinion on the prequels, which is fine, perfectly acceptable, even if no one else on the planet shares it.

    It doesn't need to be "objective fact," and no opinion is.
     
    Valairy Scot likes this.
  14. Valairy Scot

    Valairy Scot Backpacking One Pack a Day Mod of New Films star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Sep 16, 2005
    Sure, all opinions are valid - except apparently those of those who appreciate the PT. I'd be perfectly happy if we all stopped with this "the PT is" and "the PT isn't" but on the other hand, as the negativity is infecting every darn thread so is the response. And for the record, someone posting "I didn't like the PT" is not something I feel a need to respond to,only the "PT sucks and everyone with any taste knows it."
     
  15. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 9 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    I've seen the Opinion Police from both ends lately unfortunately, both the "If you like the PT, you are ignorant of objective facts/you have no taste" and the "If you have a negative opinion of TCW, you shouldn't post here." The latter is no better than the former.
     
  16. Dan_Grievous_Tikkes_Fan

    Dan_Grievous_Tikkes_Fan Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2012
    True is for many places where SW fans gather, but it is even worse for people like me who say I like the PT and TCW more than the OT... :p


    PS: How did this thread become from being about my favorite Jedi to being about how the PT sucks!?


    More PT and more TCW... more exploring of things about awesome characters like Barriss. THAT is what is important here... not if some fans - OT or PT are ignorrant or otherwise - Barriss is what is important here. And more PT and TCW could allow for more awesome exploring of her new evil nature.
     
    The Shadow Emperor likes this.
  17. MistrX

    MistrX Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 20, 2006
    If you're going to be snarky, perhaps you should spell "rebuttals" correctly.
     
  18. Darth kRud

    Darth kRud Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    The art world in San Francisco, I put a piece up at OnSix Gallery, it was puke on a canvas. Some one bought it for 85 dollars :)
     
  19. Seerow

    Seerow Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 7, 2011
    Lets get off of the PT vs OT topic in here guys. Should Barriss be redeemed? How would that story be told now?
     
  20. JackG

    JackG Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 15, 2011
    In the EU. [face_clown]
     
    Mia Mesharad and 07jonesj like this.
  21. TaradosGon

    TaradosGon Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2003
    I think they dug a whole in making Barriss' case (albeit Ahsoka was the one taking the fall for it) a high profile Republic case under penalty of death. In addition to the PT attitude that falling to the Dark Side is an irredeemable path. Now, it's not impossible to get themselves out of that hole, but it's a difficult situation.

    I could see her being pardoned by the Republic. Palpatine is portrayed as the guy that is standing by the Jedi and defending them from popular opinion so that when he finally relents that the mistrust of the Jedi turned out to be correct, his words carry a great weight. So it could make sense for Palpatine to stand by the Jedi and pardon Barriss.

    However, it would be ridiculous for him to pardon her off hand. Tarkin represents a military leader that is calling for the guilty party's head (initially believed to be Ahsoka). If Palpatine sides with the Jedi, he risks alienating the military who will need to serve him faithfully down the road. It's unclear as to how much Tarkin knows, but Tarkin already is shown to have faith that Palpatine "rarely does anything without a strategy." So they could play with the idea that Tarkin is aware that Palpatine is ultimately pursuing an anti-Jedi policy and trusts Palpatine that pardoning Barriss will ultimately further that goal long term (even if Tarkin doesn't ultimately know what that plan involves).

    On top of this though are the issues of resolving how to get Barriss back into the Order itself. The Jedi should not want her back if they believe a fall to the Dark Side is absolute, and since the Jedi remain generals, it's not like Barriss should want to come back, even if they would let her. It seems more in character for her to let herself be executed so that the "violence" of that act will speak to the Jedi Order and Republic and show them the consequences that their decisions have led to.

    Luminara was conspicuously missing from the fugitive arc and Filoni has called attention to the difference in mastership between Luminara and Anakin, and that the strict, dogmatic teachings of the former seem to represent the failings of the Order that ultimately culminated in Barriss' actions. So a story could perhaps then be told in which Luminara finally enters the picture and confronts her fallen apprentice and perhaps Luminara begins to blame herself and begins to show compassion to Barriss' which ultimately takes the fight out of Barriss (it's ultimately Luke's compassion towards Vader that redeems him). Over time Barriss then begins to realize what she has done and that while she perhaps still sees the corruption in the Republic, she begins to have faith that the Jedi Order is the best institution to try and stop it.

    Maybe then her attitude changes from one of sacrificing herself as a martyr to accepting her fate because she must stand justice. Palpatine then intervenes and refuses to sentence her to death or perhaps at the last minute hands sentencing back to the Jedi Order as a show of good faith. The Jedi Order pardon her by a narrow margin but in turn this benefits Palpatine since the senate and military wanted to see her executed for her crimes, only for the Jedi Order to appear corrupt because when Palpatine trusts them to "do the right thing" they pardon her.

    -Barriss is back in the Order, but the Jedi are now even more distrusted because of it
    -Palpatine continues to appear the Jedi sympathizer, which will ultimately serve him well when he accuses the Jedi of trying to betray him in ROTS
    -This might further create friction between the military and Jedi Order, though Tarkin might be intelligent enough to see Palpatine's strategy here and he might gain an even greater appreciation for it.
    -The Jedi might be hesitant about Barriss and Order 66 might come too soon afterward such that they were not yet convinced that a Dark Sider could be redeemed during the short time that she was allowed back into the Jedi Order (prior to Order 66), as Barriss may be becoming more like Anakin in behavior.
     
  22. Barriss_Coffee

    Barriss_Coffee Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 29, 2003
    If they do ever bring Luminara into the picture, I hope they at least give us a more elaborate explanation as to why her method of instruction failed than simply "she was too strict." I understand what the CW creators are going for, but it seems they're taking more of a "tell rather than show" approach to this argument. I mean, did Yoda's method of instructing Luke in ESB really differ all that much in both theory and practice than Luminara's (aside from being limited to the Dagobah swamps)? Are we supposed to laud a man who will soon be slaughtering innocent children as being the better instructor?

    At the moment, Luminara would have to be bat****-crazy-strict to cause Barriss to do what she did. I feel like we're missing part of the story here.
     
    Mia Mesharad and Valairy Scot like this.
  23. 07jonesj

    07jonesj Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 16, 2010
    I agree that it was disappointing Luminara didn't factor into Barriss' fall (of sorts). However, your comparison to Empire isn't apt. Yoda was wrong. Yoda wanted Luke to ignore his feelings altogether. ROTJ proves that feelings can be beneficial, and not just an obstacle to be overcome.

    Unfortunately, none of this was touched on in the Fugitive arc. Well, it was lightly touched on with Barriss talking to Ahsoka, but it was a 30-second scene.
     
  24. TaradosGon

    TaradosGon Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2003
    I have mixed feelings on that. Part of me thinks that Anakin was a good instructor due to the empathy he showed his apprentice, but at the same time by no means is Anakin slaughtering anyone justified as being the Jedi Order's fault.

    I mean, when Ahsoka is conflicted about Lux, Anakin has more of an attitude of empathy. Whereas when Anakin has feelings for Padme that he knows he shouldn't, Obi-Wan just tells him that his thoughts betray him and that he must remember his commitment to the Jedi Order. And I think that's ultimately what attracts Anakin to Palpatine. When it comes to the thought of Padme dying, Palpatine feigns concern for Anakin and how the Jedi don't appreciate him and how he'll save Anakin's wife. Whereas Yoda just tells him not to worry about it.

    Or there's things like Yoda letting Dooku go to save Anakin and Obi-Wan, but Obi-Wan warns Anakin that if he lets Dooku get away to rescue Padme, that he'll be expelled. Meanwhile Palpatine tells Anakin to leave Obi-Wan on the Invisible Hand, so that they do not jeopardize the mission to rescue him, but Anakin refuses.

    Anakin is the more conflicted/jealous/insecure individual, but at the same time I think in some ways he is the more compassionate. He'll risk himself to save those he cares about, and in the end that generally proves to be the right choice.

    Now I think the Jedi Order has a reason to hold to their beliefs, since they've worked for the past millennium at the very least. But that they failed to adapt to trends in attitudes among Jedi.
     
  25. Dan_Grievous_Tikkes_Fan

    Dan_Grievous_Tikkes_Fan Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2012
    The main reason Luminara was not in this story was, like Tikkes being out of the Mon Calamari arc, she would have made the episodes too complex and had too many subplots. Instead of focusing only on Ahsoka, the show should have focused on Luminara too if she was in.
     
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