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Should Barriss be redeemed?

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by StarWarsFan91, Mar 7, 2013.

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  1. rumblewagon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 24, 2004
    star 4
    Where was mind manipulation used?
    Shaak Ti's death made it to screen.
  2. Togruta Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 2010
    star 4
    I don't think deleted scenes count.
  3. rumblewagon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 24, 2004
    star 4
    It counts as far as SlashMan's assertion that things go a bit beyond EU if they are scripted and nearly (or did) make it to screen. As well as his assertion that things are still subject to change if they don't make it into the movies.
  4. K'Kruhk Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 11, 2011
    star 3
    At the moment her death scenes from ROTS don't 'count'. Her true death is in TFU. Even if her death from TFU did eventually get scrapped the deleted scene of her getting killed by Grievous can't be elevated to canon since she appears later on in the film.
  5. SlashMan Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2012
    star 4
    Nevermind, I was just confused by the usage of nano droids. Still, having that many plot twists really convolutes the story.
    Shaak Ti's original death was scrapped. See K'Kruhk's post. The second one isn't canon, but if any of the sources ever gets overwritten, it's still possible to go back to (similar to how the Greedo in the deleted Phantom Menace scene was Greedo's father before the Clone Wars retconned it so that it was Greedo). It is just my opinion that things that were scripted for a movie are a better source to follow because it was intended to be part of the movie originally. Obviously, that isn't always the case.
  6. Dan_Grievous_Tikkes_Fan Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 4
    If I had to take my pick then I would make her die at the hands of Grievous so we could right away see that Grievous means business.
    THAT is how you introduce a villain, Mr. Lucas!

    What if it was made that Barriss dies on the bridge over Coruscant!?
    Last edited by Dan_Grievous_Tikkes_Fan, Apr 11, 2013
  7. Circular Logic SWTV Interview Host

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2013
    star 4
    Since discussion regarding Barriss has somewhat revived in the Ahsoka's fate thread, I've decided to bring up a few ideas on possible "redemption" scenarios that were proposed by the good folks at Lit trying to reconcile the TCW depiction of Barriss versus what we know of her from the EU (Medstar, Reversal of Fortune, etc.).

    As we're now doubtless all aware, Barriss' story has diverged tremendously from the stories of her post-Knighting adventures and even her ultimate fate to die in Order 66. Or has it? The following ideas are taken directly from those discussed in the Lit forum, in a thread dedicated to reconciling the apparent TCW retcons of various EU details and characters (i.e. the fates of Even Piell and Adi Gallia, for example). I decided to post them here to give them more exposure (and hopefully promote additional ideas and discussion).

    Most posters at Lit decided that Barriss was acting of her own free will during the events of the Ahsoka Fugitive arc in Season 5. Thus, no influence from bota exposure or brainworms. Sorry to those who might have supported this idea. However, the ideas bandied about regarding how Barriss could eventually be present in Felucia during Order 66, and even have her "own" Padawan, Zonder, are intriguing, to say the least.

    There are many different ideas as to why Barriss would rejoin the Order after her violent terrorist actions were exposed and she was arrested. Most likely, Palpatine pulled some strings and "forced" the Jedi into taking Barriss back to the Order, perhaps under some pretense that she could be redeemed or re-indoctrinated. Perhaps Barriss eventually came to see the error of her ways and promised to repent by essentially doing "community service" work for the Jedi in the form of rejoining the war, but under heavy supervision. Explanations for this matter are sketchy, but in any case, the roles of Aayla Secura and Zonder in Reversal of Fortune are to serve as Barriss' probation/parole officers. This is something I find difficult to believe because Barriss' rant that the Jedi Order had become corrupt and had betrayed its most cherished ideals seems very sincere, and I doubt she would suddenly choose to make up with them.

    Another interesting idea is that Barriss could join Master Djinn Altis and his Altisian Jedi, who were separate from the main Jedi Order and held more radical beliefs not condoned by the main Order. This could make sense, as they were separate from the main Order and Barriss could still consider them as allies since they were a separate faction from the main Order and the Sith. Still, I find it hard to believe the Altisians would take her in after her terrorist actions against the main Order. Plus, why would the Republic and the Order release her to the Altisians? Some extraordinary form of probation?

    The final idea I found the most intriguing. Essentially, the Jedi Order subjects Barriss to an ancient technique: a mind-wipe like the one used on Revan during the Old Republic era, erasing his memories of his time as a Sith Lord so that he could rejoin the Order. While such a technique had only been used on Revan (that we are aware of), perhaps the Order would see fit to it to test it on Barriss, thereby wiping away her bad memories of the war and her treacherous beliefs so that she may rejoin the Order, none the wiser of her past actions as a Jedi terrorist. This explanation jives well with the events of Reversal of Fortune since it would be like the events of the Fugitive arc never happened, and thus would not end up contradicting the EU. But would the Order be willing to do this? Are they that desperate for another Jedi to assist them on the frontlines that they would risk potentially erasing Offee's mind, perhaps making her go comatose like Depa Billaba?

    I applaud those who came up with these ideas, even if I don't ultimately agree with them. Those who would like to see the EU kept intact as much as possible are willing to go to great lengths to explain seeming discrepancies between the various forms of canon, and I appreciate their passion. However, such preserving of the status quo would be a bit of a cop-out in my mind. The TCW writers (and presumably Lucas, since he green-lighted these episodes) decided to make Barriss into a Jedi dissident, and having her return to the Order with (somewhat) open arms kind of defeats this purpose of changing her character in the first place. I know many folks would prefer Barriss not have been selected to be the traitor in the first place, and I agree, but what's done is done and T-canon supercedes C-canon, for better or for worse. At the very least, now that they've made her character more interesting, they should expand on it and give us her ultimate fate in some new EU material (perhaps a comic or novel), and go more in depth of what motivated her to commit such despicable acts.
    Last edited by Circular_Logic, Apr 16, 2013
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  8. rumblewagon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 24, 2004
    star 4
    Most of them may not support it, but it is the only way to exonerate Barriss. If she was truly acting of her own free will, then she'd be expelled and imprisoned (maybe even put to death as Ahsoka was threatened with). The mind wipe idea is interesting. As far as canon levels and preserving EU, etc., I think that it will be Disney-canon that steamrolls through everything from this point on. They obviously have little regard to Star Wars other than now being able to stamp the Star Wars logo on products to sell and all over planned theme parks.
  9. Seerow Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2011
    star 6
    I personally hate the Yeerk brain invaders theory. That's lame. Barriss's speech about the Jedi being little more than dogs of the senate and military that should be hung including herself means nothing if it wasn't from her herself.

    As for how to reconcile with the EU. I dunno who this Deppa guy is, my n00b colors are showing but I like that idea. Maybe Barriss could even go off and form her own radical group of Jedi rogues upset with the way things are going. TCW kinda made it seem like Jar Jar could escape from a Republic prison with banana as a weapon so I have no problem thinking she could get out. I liked my idea for Maul breaking her out and using her as a proxy of Palp who she'd likely hate.
  10. Circular Logic SWTV Interview Host

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2013
    star 4
    @Seerow
    Depa Billaba was one of the Jedi Council members in TPM, and the former Padawan of Mace Windu. She went insane and fell to the Dark Side in a mission with Windu to Haruun Kal early in the Clone Wars. She ended up comatose after a failed attempt to commit suicide, but Windu saved her and brought her back to the Temple, where she remained in a coma until her (presumed) death in Order 66. Her Council seat was taken by Obi-Wan Kenobi.

    Another thought on Barriss. It is said that the road to perdition is paved with good intentions. We really need more backstory on how Barriss came to believe this. I've tried to fill in the blanks by stating in my first post in the Official Barriss Offee Discussion thread that she had become very horrified by the casualties of war and the way the Jedi had transformed from peacekeepers to soldiers. Rather than protecting lives, the Jedi have become more focused on taking them. I mentioned in that thread that Barriss likely witnessed Ki-Adi-Mundi's troops, including Commander Jet, setting Geonosians on fire during the Second Battle of Geonosis. Being a healer and all, Barriss must have been horrified by this cruel means of killing their foes. Plus, I'll reiterate my stance that Anakin and Ahsoka were considering war as little more than a game in Landing at Point Rain, considering they were competing to see who had the most kill counts. I'm sure deep down that Barriss felt disgusted by this state of affairs, and vowed to set the Jedi back on the right path, before the war consumed their very identity as peacekeepers. The cloud of the Dark Side only strengthened with so much war and violence being committed.

    Since they've made these changes to Barriss' character, I feel that more EU material filling in the blanks between the Brain Invaders episode and the Fugitive arc needs to be created to paint a convincing portrait of why Barriss eventually came to reject the Jedi Order and try to violently reform it. They also don't need to contradict the Medstar novels. Recall that in The Wrong Jedi, Barriss told Anakin, "I've learned that trust is overrated. The only thing the Jedi Council believes in is violence!" This implies that she had in the past tried to bring her concerns to the Jedi or the Council, but her pleas must have gone largely ignored, as the Council believed the only way to return to their roles as peacekeepers was to end the war, through any means necessary. Thus, she has lost her trust in the Jedi, the very family that raised her. An interesting parallel to Ahsoka at the end of The Wrong Jedi.

    So, in a way, Barriss is right. But little does she know that this whole war was orchestrated by Sidious as a means to get the Jedi off the right path, and to eventually sway public opinion against them. Ironically, in trying to convince the Jedi that they have gone down the wrong path, Barriss' actions only served to bring this diabolical scheme closer to fruition.
    Last edited by Circular_Logic, Apr 18, 2013
  11. Seerow Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2011
    star 6
    Thanks, bro.

    It would be great to see more of Barriss's backstory as far as what happened to her. Interesting take on the idea of a healer who would always be quick onto the scene of injured troopers and see the worst of the war in a different light. While Anakin and Ahsoka play there games. Barriss is left to deal with the pain and suffering she takes in. Perhaps sometimes the troopers would be to far gone so Barriss would be unable to save the. I still gotta wonder how her relationship or lack there of with Luminara could have effected Barriss. Luminara may simply be following code yet to me she seems particularly cold to Barriss. She was quick to write her off as dead while Anakin was unwilling to give up on Ahsoka.

    The changes did seem abrupt but I feel the group work for filling them in is there. Similar to the group work for how Ahsoka changed off screen. Its all about the war. I wonder if there might have been some falling out there. Perhaps it was Luminara she tried to confront about the state of the Jedi. Barriss was talking about Mace Windu calling Jedi Peace Keepers back in Brain Invaders. Yet between Ahsoka and her was much quicker to kill. She doesn't hesitate a second to kill the troubles she had been serving with. She was also bossing Ahsoka around all the way back then. .

    Yeah, the irony Barriss played right into Sidious's hand by being right one way or the other. I'm sure she would turn out to be a major detriment to public opinion.
    Last edited by Seerow, Apr 18, 2013
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  12. Garrett Atkins Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 11, 2013
    star 4
    Hey, Anakin was redeemed.
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  13. Narutakikun Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2012
    star 4
    You know, it drives me crazy when a woman calls guys "bro"... ;)
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  14. Seerow Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2011
    star 6
    Then bro you are not. Crazy you'll be. Not stopping. =p
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  15. Narutakikun Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2012
    star 4
    I meant "drive me crazy" in the other way. The good way.
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  16. Seerow Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2011
    star 6
    How awkward... =p
  17. Narutakikun Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2012
    star 4
    Well, there's a small personal story behind that. I probably shouldn't tell it.
  18. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    You're next on the interview list...;)
    Last edited by CT-867-5309, Apr 18, 2013
  19. Original Oatmeal Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jan 22, 2013
    star 1
    Asoka says to Barriss, "I am your sister." No, that is impossible. We are of different alien races.
  20. StarWarsFan91 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2008
    star 4
    lol

    By the way Barriss isn't an alien, she is a near-human, apart of these dudes....

    http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Mirialan
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  21. StarWarsFan91 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2008
    star 4
    I didn't know Seerow is a woman :eek:
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  22. anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of CT, SW Saga and Lucasfilm Ltd

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 9
    Weird. I knew she was a woman the first time I saw her post. She was probably posting about Rex.
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  23. Original Oatmeal Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jan 22, 2013
    star 1
    Barris is an alien to other alien species. Aliens means life forms from other planets. Historically, alien use to mean people from different countries. If I am from China and you are from Germany, then I can call you an alien because you are from a different country. You can call me an alien because I am from a different country. Same goes with different planets. Ahsoka is from a different planet or country than Barris. They are foreigners or aliens to each other. They are not directly related to each other.
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