Rebels Should Barriss Return in Rebels?

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by StarWarsFan91, Aug 3, 2013.

?

Should Barriss return in Rebels?

yes 59 vote(s) 49.6%
no 47 vote(s) 39.5%
i don't know 13 vote(s) 10.9%
  1. Seerow SWTV★Manager

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    Jun 7, 2011
    star 6
    Yeah, although their may be valid comparisons lets avoid getting into any 9/11 debates in this thread. Thanks.
  2. TaradosGon Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4
    Tarkin was trying to prove Ahsoka's guilt and call for her execution, if proven guilty. When Barriss walks in and essentially pleads guilty for those charges that Tarkin was bringing against Ahsoka, she could have very well been executed off camera. It's a shame that the writers didn't think to include Luminara in that arc at all. Does she just shake her head in disapproval of Barriss and wash her hands of her former apprentice, or does she fight tooth and nail to get through to her and find out why she did what she did?

    Not speaking to anyone in particular here, but some have implied that the bomber HAD to be an established character to avoid a Scooby Doo like outcome, and that Barriss got the short straw because she had an established relationship with Ahsoka.

    I think they could have just as easily have introduced an original character and still had it be effective. Barriss going evil was just out of nowhere, and uncharacteristic behavior from a character that we didn't see any kind of development for really, and whom we last saw several seasons ago.

    I've been watching Justice League on Netflix and the other day I saw an arc (I think it was a 2 parter, if not 3 parter) in which the Green Lantern (John Stewart) is framed and has to face a trial. He is deceived into believing he destroyed a planet, he assumes responsibility for what he believed he did, the rest of the Green Lantern corp distances itself from him for the atrocity of killing billions of people. The Guardians of the Universe (that oversee the Green Lantern corp) then leave their home planet of Oa to go to Stewart's defense. It's then revealed that the Manhunters (sentient machines) hired a pirate to frame John Stewart in order to drive a wedge among the Green Lantern corp and get the Guardians to leave Oa, leaving the planet open for attack.

    This isn't Game of Thrones quality writing, but it gets the job done and it didn't feel like Scooby Doo to me at all.

    And if TCW really wanted a good mystery, then they would have had to have thrown several other suspects in to keep the audience guessing as to who did it. They built the story up like there was going to be some big twist, but people had guessed that it was Barriss right away. I was actually one of the ones that thought that it wasn't Barriss BECAUSE she would have been too obvious, and I was hoping that she would be the red herring.

    They could have used several original characters or even a Jedi like Eeth Koth, whose fate was left wide open to serve as red herrings. Rather than having the bomb go off when Ahsoka and Anakin were off world, they could have had it go off while she was in the temple and create a situation where even Ahsoka thinks she might be guilty. For instance if she's doing maintenance on her starfighter, all of a sudden there's a power build up in the ship's reactor causing a massive explosion that kills several Jedi and Republic personnel. She thinks she made a mistake, she goes to the court and pleads guilty while Anakin refuses to accept this and finds out that the ship was rigged to blow. If they wanted to use Barriss in the story, they could have used her as a red herring.

    The Jedi Temple is locked down during the investigation while the Jedi Council attends Ahsoka's trial. Separatists then use a Trojan Horse-style plan to get into the mostly vacated Temple and strike at the heart of the Jedi. And then it gets revealed that someone like Sora Bulq had made a deal to open the city-gates per say for the Separatists and was using his influence as a respected master to have young impressionable padawans to unknowingly plant the bombs around the temple, and maybe Barriss herself was involved in some way (but having been deceived by the Jedi Master). This makes the Jedi look absolutely terrible as one of their own allowed Separatists into the heart of Coruscant, and might give Tarkin justification to urge Palpatine to take direct control of the Jedi Council and spy on them (which happens in ROTS).

    The Republic and Jedi then repel this attack but Sora Bulq has escaped to potentially show up again as Dooku's new apprentice and a second influential Jedi turned to the Dark Side that can then help drive a wedge within the Jedi Order.

    Perhaps Ahsoka goes to trial but is then proven innocent. Then Barriss goes to trial with video proof that she planted one of the bombs (though she was deceived), perhaps this strains their relationship because Ahsoka views Barriss as a traitor and doesn't believe she's innocent until the very end of the arc, at which point the damage to their friendship has already been done. And rather than leaving the Order, the arc would just end on the sad note that there has pretty much been an irreparable wedge driven into the Jedi Order that destroyed Ahsoka and Barriss' friendship, has left the Republic viewing the Jedi Order as untrustworthy, and has left the Jedi perhaps even suspicious of each other.


    It didn't HAVE to be Barriss IMO, and even with an original character - whose motives can be fleshed out more believably without disrupting prior character development - it wouldn't necessarily feel like Scooby Doo.
    Last edited by TaradosGon, Aug 7, 2013
  3. Circular Logic SWTV Interview Host

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    Mar 3, 2013
    star 4
    @TaradosGon

    Exactly. You bring up great points on how they could have improved the whole "mystery" angle of the arc. There really needed to be more red herrings showing up during the first two episodes, at least.

    I especially love this idea:
    Back when I was still lurking the boards, and right after watching The Jedi Who Knew Too Much, I thought the unidentified Weequay Jedi in this picture was Sora Bulq, and that they chose not to identify him because doing so would give away the suspect to any astute EU fan. We also see him walking past Letta's interrogation room in Sabotage, along with Barriss. In fact he showed up briefly in a couple of scens in TJWKTM. I really thought he was the suspect, and even after To Catch a Jedi I held out hope that he had trained a young female Jedi in Jar'Kai and that this unknown Jedi was the assailant that attacked Ahsoka at the nanodroid warehouse. Alas, the Filoni video gave the mystery away rather prematurely, and the ending of the episode really made it rather obvious who the suspect was anyway. A missed opportunity, methinks, especially given that Bulq actually did appear in the Battle of Geonosis in AoTC (very briefly) and so he should be fair game as a character that can be introduced to TCW; GL liked bringing in characters that appeared in the films.

    You can see the Weequay Jedi highlighted with blue dots, hanging out on the right, noticeably away from the other Jedi.
    [IMG]

    In fact, this picture gives you another potential suspect in Eekar Oki, a TCW-unique character who really doesn't do anything outside of showing up in some Jedi meeting scenes. You could have made him the second influential Jedi working alongside Bulq to frame Jedi like Barriss and Ahsoka. Hell, you could even make him the mastermind of the bombing! Even TCW-OC Tera Sinube could have made a more appropriate suspect than Barriss (okay, somewhat kidding)! Really, you're gonna add their character models to this scene, why not have them be the villains in the plot? And having Bulq still be influential in the Order (prior to his betrayal at Ruul) would be far less damaging to the EU than making Barriss the mastermind behind the bombing. Just small timeline changes (assuming Bulq gets away before the other Jedi can implicate him), rather than a complete character development 180 for Barriss. Barriss could instead be used as the red herring, like you said, who unwittingly aided in a terrorist plot and then a wedge is driven in the Order.

    At last, they sacrificed potential sophistication for a very simple mystery plot that would be completely overshadowed by the story of Ahsoka's disillusionment and departure from the Jedi Order. While I still enjoyed the arc for what it was, it could have potentially been so much better had they borrowed some of your ideas instead.
    Last edited by Circular Logic, Aug 7, 2013
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  4. Mzukiller Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 5, 2012
    star 2
    In their...defense, let's say. There were only really two people who could really be the bomber: Asajj or Barriss. It would make sense for Grievous or maybe Dooku, but then where's the shock there? That's an act of war, not pure terrorism. I would've preferred Ahsoka, but since she's the main character, how would that work?
    Definitely this, though. In addition to the council being inept to the point of "Are you people Jedi or not" the whole twist was just kinda stupid. The motivation was the worst part in my honest opinion: "I hate how Jedi are killers now, so I'll kill several innocent people just to make a point" She claimed that the Jedi were starting to look like Sith immediately after she says that red lightsavers suit her.

    So, I just assume that Barriss either went psycho or she was tipped off by Palpatine just so he could have the satisfaction of knowing he corrupted somebody.
  5. Dark Lord Tarkas Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2011
    star 4
    That's not the point.

    My point was about terrorists' rationales being sufficient in the eyes of sane minds, not about their ability to plan and do horrific things.

    If you take my point as you did, than you could say Barriss' actions were well thought-out as well because she sure succeeded in killing plenty of people as well.
  6. Narutakikun Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2012
    star 4
    Sure they did. That was the plan - to goad America into what Bin Laden was sure would be a long, drawn-out, losing war in Afghanistan that would turn Muslim public opinion against America and drain American money, resources, military strength, and political will such that it would weaken the US grip on the Middle East. That Bin Laden got two such wars (Afghanistan and Iraq) for the price of one was just icing on the cake.

    Anwar al-Alwaki started out calling for peace, too - so much so that after 9/11 the US Army and Congress invited him to speak to them as a representative of moderate Islam. He ended up, a few years later, in Yemen calling for Jihad, which was where he was when a Predator drone blew him to pieces. Sometimes people get disillusioned, then get angry, then get radical. They may be right to do so, and they may be wrong to do so, but it's certainly not something unheard of.

    I have no problem with things (like Barriss's disillusionment) happening off-screen, and her objections to the war and the actions of the Jedi were all completely reasonable.

    Anyhow, it's entirely possible that Palps could just have ignored or forgotten about Barriss, and that she simply moldered away in a prison cell for a couple of decades. Technically she was never even a Jedi Knight since she never took the trials, so she might not have been on a Purge List.
  7. JackG Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2011
    star 4
    Sidenote: drones are the most unethical, ****** up things.
  8. Narutakikun Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2012
    star 4
    It's drones vs. clones so you better not, uhm... bones? phones? thrones?
    Last edited by Narutakikun, Aug 8, 2013
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  9. StarWarsFan91 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2008
    star 4
    When compared to all the other weapons and ways to use said weapons in warfare, especially ways that cause far more harm/destruction to noncombatants or not then drones..............i wouldn't list drone attacks as the most unethical weapon/tactic in war.
    darklordoftech likes this.
  10. Dark Lord Tarkas Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2011
    star 4
    It depends whether or not it's a declared war, in which case I'd be inclined to agree, but if they're used in countries where the country sending the drone isn't in a declared war with that country to get away with killing people anyway as the US is currently doing, that's a problem.
    JackG likes this.
  11. Circular Logic SWTV Interview Host

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2013
    star 4
    Guys, I know you might think this talk of terrorism is relevant to the discussion at hand, but I believe we're starting to drift dangerously off-topic here. Discussion of RL politics would be better suited to the Disco thread, methinks.

    [IMG]
    Last edited by Circular Logic, Aug 8, 2013
  12. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Yeah, my experience around here has been that LACWAC/TV Forum political conversations always go this way:

    [10 percent of the forum]: "Liberals are awesome. Here's a wall of text explaining why: -----------------"
    [10 percent of the forum]: "No, liberals suck. Here's a wall of text explaining why: -----------------------"
    [the remaining 80 percent of the forum]: "Would you people shut the **** up? The Senate Floor is at the bottom of the forum list on the main page."

    ...and I'm not picking on anyone here, I've been in that first 10 percent group and the last 80 percent group, depending on the conversation.

    We probably should get back to trashing talking about Barriss though.

    New idea: retcon season 5 altogether and bring her into Rebels as a healer attempting to hide her Force-sensitivity from the Empire.

    *ducks for cover*
  13. TaradosGon Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4
    Give it enough time and I'd imagine C-canon will undo what Lucas/Filoni did with Barriss.

    Unless there is some impossible hurdle preventing the C--canon from doing so, they seem to try to maintain the status quo as much as possible.

    For instance, I felt it was heavily implied by Lucas and Filoni that there weren't any Mandalorians outside of Death Watch and the capital, cube-city, considering the capital seems to be in the middle of a waste land, Almec dismisses the presence of any Mandalorians still following the warrior culture aside from those that were banished to Concordia, and that Death Watch is trying to hard to take control of the Pacifist capital with its Northern European looking human population.

    Whereas my understanding (based on reading some members' posts) is that C-canon maintains that the wasteland around the capital is not planet-wide, that there are jungles, there are Mandalorian bands there and elsewhere in the system, and that despite the capital's population being homogenous, that "Mandalorian" remains a culture that comprises various species (backed by Maul's ability to take the title).

    I kind of felt like Filoni and Lucas were aiming for one thing, but since they don't make things water tight, C-canon still manages to seep in and maintain as much of its status quo as possible.

    We saw Barriss plead guilty, she got taken away. She was not shown to be executed and we never saw exactly what happened to act as the catalyst to drive her so against the Jedi that she decided to resort to violence. Unless Filoni is keeping the character off the table to C-canon, I could see them establishing that she is redeemed/fixed by some plot device and goes back to being good, because Filoni and Lucas never explicitly said that she died or that she wasn't mind controlled in some way.

    The EU will find a way.

    [IMG]
    Last edited by TaradosGon, Aug 8, 2013
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  14. DavraCahan Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2013
    star 1
    Here's what happened to Barriss (in my mind, at least):

    Barriss gets captured by the Seperatists several months prior to the bombing and is replaced by a Force Sensitive Clawdite, or some other skin changer. The Doppelganger Barriss is the one who bombs the temple, following through with a Separatist plan to discredit the Jedi Order (which works fabulously). The Real Barriss is either rescued by Ahsoka or eventually escapes from the Separatist prison.

    Either way, she stays under the radar and survives Order 66, allowing her to be included in future stories like Rebels. :)
  15. Darth Valkyrus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 12, 2013
    star 4
    The problem with that is that this Clawdite would need to be a Force user themselves, and a well trained one at that. They have to choke Letta, and later take on Ahsoka in a duel and win, and later take on Mr. Chosen One himself and give him a hard time for a few minutes.
    Last edited by Darth Valkyrus, Aug 9, 2013
  16. EHT New Films Manager

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    Glad to see this got back on topic. ;)
  17. darkchrono Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2005
    star 4
    Just curious when did the character we know as Barriss Offee get her name? Her character model was used in Ep. II however she was just a background character used just to show that there were other Jedi around doing things.

    Did she have a name yet in Ep. II or was it not until the EU got a hold of her that she got the name Barriss Offee?
  18. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Her Wook article is a mess but it does mention that she was introduced in The Approaching Storm, so she did have a name by the time AOTC rolled around. Doesn't say where the name came from though.

    Maybe The Essential Guide to Characters talks about it, if anyone has a copy of that.

    Now I want to read the Republic comics...more Star Wars for me to catch up on over the next year...
    Last edited by anakinfansince1983, Aug 9, 2013
  19. darkchrono Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2005
    star 4
    Hmm, most of the acting for Ep. II was likely done long before the movie was ever released (possibly close to two years before). Since 'Approaching Storm' was meant to be a tie in to Ep. II released just a few months prior to the movie the author may have just had some inside info on what was going to be in the movie and created a story about some of those characters (in other words he may have just taken the nameless jedi in the movie and created a story for them).

    Also the part of her story that got retconned by TCW was written by different authors than the one that wrote 'Aproaching Storm'.
    Last edited by darkchrono, Aug 9, 2013
  20. LordMarduk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 2007
    star 2
    chop her head off...
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  21. Jedi_Kenobi32 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2005
    star 4
    A Doppelganger Barriss idea does sound interesting. [face_thinking] Though I doubt that actually happened I think I would have preferred it over the real Barriss bombing the temple. Especially since we never saw any buildup from Barriss being a peaceful pacifist Jedi to a dark side user who becomes a terrorist and a murderer.
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  22. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    I remember hoping for Doppelganger Barriss or Brain-Worm-Infested Barriss after watching the To Catch a Jedi commentary, because I figured there had to be some twist behind it.
    Jedi_Kenobi32 likes this.
  23. Darth Valkyrus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 12, 2013
    star 4
    I just had a thought... What if the terrorist group that Barriss was part of mounts an attack of some kind and busts her out of custody? That could make an interesting premise for the continued adventures of Barriss Offee.

    That organization is like, the player that everyone's forgotten about. The factor that's been overlooked. But that doesn't mean they've gone away...

    I guess it's unlikely that a ragtag bunch of militants could successfully assault that military stockade of Tarkins (the one Ahsoka escaped from) but there are always weak links, like prisoner transfers where a prison speeder van transports inmates between prisons, or from prison to court and back, or to hospital etc. They could hit a transfer in progress. Much like how Dominic Toretto was busted free in Fast Five.

    You might think they wouldn't do it, that they would disown Barriss because she murdered one of them to save her own ass. But on the other hand, there's no guarantee that they would believe that that's what happened. They might still be doubting Thomases on that.. "Our girl Barriss, murdered one of us? Don't believe it, it's a total crock. She's trustworthy." Even her holonetized confession could be written off as an official photoshop job.

    So it could happen.
    Last edited by Darth Valkyrus, Aug 29, 2013
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  24. Circular Logic SWTV Interview Host

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    star 4
    @Darth Valkyrus

    Your thoughts actually kind of mirror the discussion in the Official Barriss Offee Discussion Thread back when I joined LACWAC, shortly after The Wrong Jedi aired. In particular, I recall several folks, including myself, wondering whether they would revisit Barriss' story before news of the cancellation. There were ideas being thrown about, including one of my personal favorites about like-minded, dissident Jedi who agreed with Barriss' assessment of the Order's corruption and decide to break her out. This could end up being a small third faction opposing both the Republic and the CIS and desiring to stay neutral in the war, but are willing to stoop to terrorism to do it. Hell, it could even be a number of Separatist assassins, like Dooku's Dark Acolytes, breaking her out of prison in order to convince her to join the CIS cause. I had the idea about Dooku wanting to recruit another Jedi who shared his belief in the rampant corruption in the Republic and the Order, and one also willing to embrace her inner darkness.

    In fact, had the show not been cancelled, I imagined Barriss could potentially be broken out by CIS agents simultaneously along with the imprisoned Separatist leaders like Poggle, Wat Tambor, and Whorm Loathsom. That could have made for a fantastic episode!

    However, all of these stories are impossible to show onscreen once the bonus content finishes, and I'm all but certain that she's not showing up in bonus episodes.
  25. darklordoftech Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
    Barriss could be an anti-Sith darksider if she appears in Rebels. Must all darksiders serve Palpatine?

    "You are a Sith!"
    "Wrong! I may be a darksider, but I despise the Sith!"
    Last edited by darklordoftech, Aug 29, 2013
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