Rebels Should Barriss Return in Rebels?

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by StarWarsFan91, Aug 3, 2013.

?

Should Barriss return in Rebels?

yes 59 vote(s) 49.6%
no 47 vote(s) 39.5%
i don't know 13 vote(s) 10.9%
  1. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    No misunderstandings here.:) I'm saying Barriss didn't do anything dramatic... that her role in the final arc was poorly conceived, written and executed... like it was meant to be for somebody else. Her confession rant was terrible and so wholly unbelievable that I called it a farce. It was truly a John McEnroe moment for me: "YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS!" :p If Lucas wanted to paint the Jedi in a different light, he should have planned the PT differently... leaving it for a cartoon Dave Filoni or Leland Chee to explain, doesn't make the movies story better.

    TCW = EU. And I'll never buy the "I don't take it serious" argument... everyone on here, takes Star Wars seriously enough to sign-up for the privilege of posting their views. ;)

    End of ? When did Lucasfilm hire you? Master Piell was called a major character but the TCW team didn't even bother to check with Michael Reaves so they ended up killing the same guy in two different places. If that doesn't define lazy, then I've lost my mind.:p

    At the end of the day, Ahsoka Tano is an afterthought to Anakin Skywalker's story and they can dress her up any way they like, but she still has no place in the films... or, his turn. The dude betrayed the Jedi Order just fine without her. Having said that, JJA & Co could have complete control of her post-ROTS back-story/ ST-destiny, so there still is some hope left for her fans. :)

    But you do... share in the quirkiness.... and it mattered enough for you to declare that: "Ahsoka Tano is a major character in the Star Wars universe". Even though I won't argue with that, I will say that she's similar to Darth Plagueis... a role-player in whatever the current story happens to be, but ultimately disposable in the grand scheme of the films things.

    I'm not a Barriss Offee fan; I'm a fan of good storytelling and I just didn't see that in the last arc.
  2. Narutakikun Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2012
    star 4
    To misquote Mark Zuckerberg in The Social Network ("If you guys were the inventors of Facebook, you would have invented Facebook"): If that role had been written for someone else, it would have been written for someone else. This is especially true because the series is CGI animated - it's not like there was an actor unavailable for the part, so it had to be given to another character, as might be true in a live-action movie or TV show. Barriss got that role because she was supposed to have that role.

    Nope. Sorry, but to throw this in with a bunch of "just make sure the check clears" licensed novels and games is ridiculous. Lucas was involved with TCW, cared about it, personally contributed storylines to it, and personally vetoed storylines he didn't like. No, really - listen to some of the interviews Dave Filoni has given with The Forcecast/Rebel Force Radio and you'll hear straight from the source about how deeply Lucas was involved in TCW. It's as much his baby as The Empire Strikes Back, which he didn't personally write the script for or direct either.

    I don;t need to work for Lucasfilm to notice how many episodes of TCW Ahsoka was in compared to how many Barriss was in. Ahsoka is a major character, Barriss isn't.

    It's not lazy, it's just the fact that Lucas doesn't give a rat's kiester about what's in EU books or comics. He doesn't care about them, and I doubt he even knows what's in them. To him, they're just something that generates some side revenue, as opposed to TCW, which he actually does care about and was personally involved in.

    You know, except for that one film she was the main character of. Yes, The Clone Wars movie is a theatrically-released Lucasfilm Star Wars movie. I see no reason why it "doesn't count".

    Sorry, that's just plain wrong.

    But he didn't do it "without her". Just because you don't like Ahsoka doesn't mean she doesn't really exist. I don't like Jar-Jar either, but that doesn;t mean I can just pretend he wasn't really in the prequels.

    I declared it because it's true.

    I don't even know what that means.
  3. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    For all his quotes, we know that GL line-edited certain novels. George's involvement; or lack thereof, has no bearing on what is defined as EU. Star Wars was based upon an original screenplay, it wasn't a novel that was made into a feature film.

    "The Star Wars Expanded Universe, also known as the EU amongst Star Wars fans, encompasses all of the officially licensed, fictional background of the Star Wars universe, outside of the six feature films produced by George Lucas. The expanded universe includes books, comic books, video games, spin-off films like Star Wars: The Clone Wars, television series, toys, and other media."

    TCW is a television show, just like The Star Wars Holiday Special and Ewoks: The Battle for Endor...
    If this series was considered to be part of/ on par with the Saga, then you would be posting in that forum. ;)

    Still doesn't change my opinion that the writer's were lazy or that the story was lame.
    So we should probably leave it at this: You liked how the show ended. I did not.:p

    Where do you think Aayla came from? Or the name Master Vos? Lucas knew enough to cherry-pick from it and that makes his supposed callousness towards the EU, even worse. I don't care what he had to say about it, after the fact. In thirty five years I've seen him contradict himself more than once. Like Forrest Gump said: it happens.[face_blush]

    Except that one film, wasn't a Star Wars Episode... and is not considered a part of the Saga.
    If it was, you would be posting elsewhere.

    We are talking revisionist-history here, so Anakin most certainly did turn without her... just as Palpatine rose to power without any of us knowing much about the role played by Darth Plagueis. Liking Ahsoka has nothing to do with the story working just fine without her involvement. Or, if we flip the coin.... hating on Plagueis won't change the fact that Maul's back-story got crushed a thousand times worse than what they did to Barriss. Tano exists in TCW to help us understand why Anakin was so frustrated with the Jedi Council in the films and fans have the right to be ticked off about the way that all went down. But I'm not blaming Tano or hating on her role in that mess... I simply loathe the way they used Barriss to provide an out for what was essentially another extra.

    Hope that clarifies things a bit.:)
    Last edited by SithStarSlayer, Sep 26, 2013
    JackG, Iron_lord, DarthJenari and 2 others like this.
  4. Dark Lord Tarkas Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2011
    star 4
    Do you really think it would even possible for someone to have a convincing, morally justified reason for terrorist-bombing the Jedi Temple? That's separate from the issue of how it fits with her EU character but it's the main issue to me.
  5. Barriss_Coffee Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2003
    star 6
    I think it could work if it's someone who didn't understand the Jedi. Not someone who grew up in that very temple and whose best friends/mentors lived there.
  6. Narutakikun Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2012
    star 4
    No, not convinced.

    Again, to throw TCW - series and movie - in with a bunch of novels and games that Lucas never read and doesn't care about as if it's all the same is ridiculous. Get laywerly with definitions all you want, that doesn't make it any less ridiculous.

    On the other hand, the idea that a Star Wars theatrical movie would get released by Lucasfilm without GL knowing and approving of what was in it, is equally ridiculous.

    Lucas may have taken an interest in a couple of the novels. He may have cherry-picked an idea or two from the ones he did take an interest in. That's not the same as knowing or caring what was in the vast majority of them.

    This forum is called "Star Wars TV', not "Star Wars EU". Whether it's EU or not, and whether it counts as "real Star Wars" or not, has nothing to do with what belongs here.

    So you don't like Ahsoka. That's fine. And you don't like how the series ended. That's fine too. You're entitled to that opinion. But as the great Senator Pat Moynihan once said: Everybody's entitled to their own opinion; they're just not entitled to their own facts. "I don't like Ahsoka" is having your own opinion. "I don't like Ahsoka, and therefore she isn't a major Star Wars character" is having your own facts. "I didn't like the way The Clone Wars ended" is having your own opinion. "I don't like the way The Clone Wars ended, and therefore the series isn't 'real' Star Wars" is having your own facts.
    V-2 and JediGirl_Angelina like this.
  7. Mia Mesharad Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    [IMG]

    Interesting you should bring that up, considering you're using your own opinion to bypass the facts Sith Star Slayer is bringing to the table. Your argument amounts to "I don't like reality so it must be wrong." Not only that, you're putting words in his mouth, and twisting what he's actually saying in a way to make him seem unreasonable.

    This is not fact, this is your opinion. Official Lucasfilm policy says otherwise, and in fact, is directly counter to your claim. TCW is EU because it is not one of the live-action, numerically-titled films that comprises the main Star Wars saga. It has nothing to do with quality, familiarity, or acclaim. There is basic criteria for each category: TCW fits one, and does not fit the other. This is not a difficult concept to understand.
  8. Circular Logic SWTV Interview Host

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2013
    star 4
    I'm getting a strong sense of déjà vu with the most recent arguments; seems like all the TCW/EU stuff was argued in this thread months ago. Mia, considering Narutakikun hasn't changed his stance since then, it's probably not worth arguing over this again, as it becomes a battle of semantics. But I guess one can try...
    purplerain likes this.
  9. Narutakikun Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2012
    star 4
    You're right on that. No one is convincing anyone here. No point going on with this line of thought.
    purplerain likes this.
  10. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    I'm not here to convince anyone.
    Its blatantly obvious that you aren't posting in a movie forum and stuff.
    ;)

    I didn't throw anything, anywhere. Some people just handle the truth better than others, I guess... The Star Wars Expanded-Universe Television Show is what it is... no matter how much any fan wants that to be different. Not sure what "laywerly" has to do with the logic of not posting in the Saga Forum, but to each his own.

    This isn't a canon debate and keying in on George's involvement won't change the status of expanded universe material... Again, what was the Episode Number for the standalone cartoon movie that you mentioned? Produce that, and I will personally ask Admin to merge the entire Television Forum with Saga.

    Debating canon-levels is one thing, telling me "what belongs where" is another... so I'll try the succinct method:
    The 6 films that form the Saga are mutually inclusive, everything else is EU.
    --As a Moderator of the Television and the Prequel Trilogy Forums, it is incumbent upon me to know what belongs in an Expanded Universe Forum. I did not establish what the EU is, but I am here to manage what goes where.

    When did I say that? I said I didn't like how the show ended. I thought I was clear when I said my beef wasn't with her and/or her role in the end, but maybe I wasn't. So, let's try this again... I knew she was doomed, so I never really invested in her... I jumped into TCW for Saga-related reasons, not because Skywalker got handed a Padawan. Speaking plainly, I watched her story without getting too worked up either way... sometimes she was annoying, sometimes she was cool... but mostly she was just there.

    Senator who? This is Star Wars, not phony-American politics from Hollywood East, DC.
    Talking in circles won't move the cartoon from a lower tier into the apex of the Saga & that's a fact.
    :)

    And, here are a few more:
    Fact: Ahsoka Tano was created in the Expanded Universe.[face_dancing]
    Fact: Anakin was frustrated with the Council before Ahsoka Tano was ever created:mad:
    Fact: Anakin turned to the dark side before Ahsoka Tano was ever created.[face_skull]

    Opinion: Ahsoka Tano's creation matches the definition of superfluous. ;)

    Final fact: this thread isn't about Ahsoka Tano, the Expanded Universe or G.Walton's involvement in said universe... this is about whether Barriss should return in Rebels, or not.

    ***

    At first, I half-jokingly said that she should return with a proper 'medical explanation'...

    now, I'm serious about it.

    @Rebels: #BrainDamagedBarrissMustReturn!
    Last edited by SithStarSlayer, Sep 28, 2013
  11. purplerain Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 2013
    star 4
    I disagree. Go ahead and believe a lie if you want.
  12. Ananta Chetan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 11, 2013
    star 4
    *runs into the thread out of breath*

    Ananta: I've just learned a terrible truth. I think SithStarSlayer is a Sith Lord.

    Everyone: A Sith Lord!

    Ananta: He knows the ways of the Force. He's been trained to use the Dark Side....and umm well, there is his user name and avatar image.

    Everyone: Then our worst fears have been realized. We must act quickly if this thread is to survive.... wait, on second thought, scratch that, isn't he the SW TV Mod?

    @SithStarSlayer :p
  13. Circular Logic SWTV Interview Host

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2013
    star 4
    @Ananta Chetan

    Be careful, or this might be what transpires next:

    Ananta Chetan: Don't ban me! Please...PLEASE!

    SithStarSlayer: Do not worry. I'm not going to ban you. I have...other uses for you! [face_devil]
  14. StarWarsFan91 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2008
    star 4
    You know, if Lucas's involvement in TCW somehow makes TCW non-EU for some, then wouldn't the same apply to the Ewok films? He sure wrote the story to the 2 films. But im sure said people would not see the ewok films on the same level as the saga.

    Just because Lucas has some involvement in some star wars materiel doesn't make said material G-canon. Only the 6 films (and future ST) can be G-canon.
  15. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    Was half tempted to make AC into a VIP and change his name to Sx3ismyMaster.;)
  16. Ananta Chetan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 11, 2013
    star 4

    A title I would be honored to wear. :p
    SithStarSlayer likes this.
  17. JackG Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2011
    star 4
    @Mia Mesharad - I love your seemingly endless gifs of Cersei, which are always spot on.
    SithStarSlayer and Mia Mesharad like this.
  18. Mia Mesharad Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    She's just so wonderfully expressive. :p
    SithStarSlayer likes this.
  19. JackG Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2011
    star 4
  20. Trebor Sabreon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 15, 2010
    star 4
    I honestly believe that, as far as someone very high up the chain (not the highest, mind, but close) was concerned, this, unfortunately, just may have been the case.

    A compelling, believable story might've been striven for, sure, but if nothing else were to come of the story, Little 'Soka had to leave the Order and absolutely must have survived.

    At all costs.

    No matter the ramifications.

    Ugh.
  21. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
  22. Trebor Sabreon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 15, 2010
    star 4
    Yeppers.
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
  23. Circular Logic SWTV Interview Host

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2013
    star 4
    I hesitate to revive this highly controversial thread, but since the Rebels Report interview actually went briefly on the Barriss Offee EU contradiction issue, I'll do so.

    TCW writer Brent Friedman was interviewed (he was quick to defend George Lucas' vision, and said they certainly don't feel beholden to the EU), and about 22-and-a-half minutes in, he revealed that it was Lucas that decided to make Barriss the culprit, which Friedman believed was an appropriate decision because it would increase the "suspense" (not like there was much given how predictable it was). Friedman did reveal that there were certain segments of the writing team that defended the EU, and often were able to talk George out of deciding on a retcon. Friedman revealed that (and I paraphrase) "we couldn't just invent a new character to play the role that Barriss played, because it would have been too obvious... This kind of has to be a surprise, so maybe picking a character that everyone thought they know their story and fate of, would [build this suspense]."

    So we're stuck with a retcon and no word on the horizon as to Barriss' ultimate fate now. Perhaps this makes it a wasted or missed opportunity to expand on Barriss' decision to betray the Order, which may or may not ever have been covered from then on regardless of whether or not the show got cancelled when it did. And I myself have to introduce my own headcanon based on what we know of her in the Clone Wars-era EU.

    Barriss Offee Fanart
    [IMG]
    Credit to PACMANFIRE at DA.

    I really love this piece. I think it reveals Barriss' (presumed) inner conflict well. A red saber and a blue saber, symbolic of the red pill and the blue pill, respectively, perhaps? The blue saber corresponding to the ignorance of the Jedi that they are indeed being played by the Sith puppetmaster orchestrating the whole galactic conflict, and the red saber corresponding to Barriss' realization of the terrible truth (here's where my headcanon comes in), perhaps following her bota exposure on Drongar. If they use this explanation to explain her sudden Face Heel Turn, I'd be relatively satisfied. But who knows if they will ever cover this issue again. As of now, Barriss Offee is a victim of what the writers decided would make for "a better story." Alas...
    eht13 likes this.
  24. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    I've actually never seen Matrix and I have no desire to see it, so I don't get the full implications of the red pill/blue pill reference.

    That said...Barriss the culprit being Lucas' idea doesn't make it a better one. In fact, between this and bringing Maul back...damn, Lucas, what the hell happened to you in the past few years? At least Maul's resurrection ended up being bearable.

    As far as Friedman...this is a case of "let's just say lol because the other option is to throw large objects, and lol is less damaging."

    "Couldn't" invent a new character? Dry that one up and you could fertilize Felucia. A new character introduced in season 2 with some character development in seasons 3 and 4 as a "good Jedi" and close friend of Ahsoka, would have broadsided us by being the bomber far more than Offee did.

    That new character with that development would be the character whose story we thought we knew. Since the fugitive arc is an EU retcon and therefore Barriss' EU story doesn't count, there is no character "whose story we thought we knew", because we had not seen Barriss in three years. And I actually don't know much of her EU story other than her being a healer, therefore for me there really was no 'story I thought I knew', which is what irritated me the most about her being the bomber.

    If they bring Barriss back and use the bota exposure or brain worm as an explanation, I will be slightly more satisfied but the lack of development for her--as either a good character or a potentially bad one, or as Ahsoka's friend--will still be a gaping plot hole to me.
  25. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    Ah ha! So he admits the truth!

    It was extremely obvious and not at all a surprise anyway.

    Here's an idea, how about you invent several new characters? That would introduce several suspects.

    I should have been put in charge of TCW because I know how to make a better tv show.
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.