Should city reps be given mod powers in their own forums?

Discussion in 'FanForce Communications' started by Sebulba2179, Dec 30, 2002.

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  1. citizen-tom Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    star 5
    Perhaps the JC should consider migrating to a superior message board software

    If I am not mistaken, IGNBoards are the most superior boards on the net, are they not? I know I haven't seen anything better.
  2. TheGrandePoobah Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 30, 2000
    star 4
    Given the vast number of handy features that they lack (see the rest of this thread for some) and the fact that NO ONE is currently working on adding to the IGN Boards, I can't see it as being the best around.
  3. LordJedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 15, 2001
    star 4
    I know this is getting off-topic, but what other forum software is available? I've only ever seen two types, this one and on theonering.net. This software is FAR superior to theirs, but theirs is free to redistribute and modify (GPL for those that know what that is). I'm truly interested as I'd like to look at them and see if there is anything better or anything that might be free and easier to modify.
  4. TheGrandePoobah Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 30, 2000
    star 4
    There are a great deal of forum softwares out there, many free.

    Try searching SourchForge to start with. Or drop by Slashdot and check their forum out (I believe it's available under one of the "free" licenses).

    There's also things like [http://www.delphiforums.com/]Delphi[/link=] (free forum provider -- at least I think they still are) and UBB from InfoPop which is a bit pricy.

    All this just off the top of my head, with a little help from google and /.

    (Edit: fixed links)
  5. TheGrandePoobah Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 30, 2000
    star 4
    (What the message above should be, if I wasn't getting errors while trying to edit it.)

    There are a great deal of forum softwares out there, many free.

    Try searching SourchForge to start with. Or drop by Slashdot and check their forum out (I believe it's available under one of the "free" licenses).

    There's also things like Delphi (free forum provider -- at least I think they still are) and UBB from InfoPop which is a bit pricy.

    All this just off the top of my head, with a little help from google and /.

    (Edit: fixed links)
    (Edit2: fixed links again, this time for sure...)
    (Edit3: Fixed another link. ;))
  6. Kadue Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 20, 2000
    star 5
    Oh I know that we could tranfer the data with a fair amount of elbow grease (and lots of Find/Replace commands), but we simply don't have access to the database, or even viewing a dump of the data.

    'Currently' was missing from that statement. We don't have access to the user/posts database, but it doesn't mean we can't if we have the need to.

    If I am not mistaken, IGNBoards are the most superior boards on the net, are they not? I know I haven't seen anything better

    Loaded question. Each forum software is better for different user groups, and currently there aren't all that many choices due to our sheer size, the look/features that we want to have and the cost factor.
  7. BYOB_Kenobi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 7, 2000
    star 5
    If someone in a position of power cannot restrict themselves from excercising that power within the boundaries of their own jurisdiction, then that person should not have that position of power.

    I don't see how software restrictions have any effect on simple logic.
  8. Spike_Spiegel Former FF Administrator Former Saga Mod

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2002
    star 6
    Getting on topic, aren't RSAs Admins in board terms? In that case, giving CRs "moderator" status would still make them "underlings" to RSAs. True, this will up the quantity of mods in the JC considerably, but most CRs stay in the FF boards anyways. This would quicken the response time in blunders and FF problems and would help overworked RSAs a lot leaving them more time for more Regional Support roles such as supervising CRs, working with board codes and helping the establishment of new FFs.

    Its not that I think there is anything wrong with the system as it stands right now, but I think this idea at least merits some discussion.
  9. Rox Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 24, 2000
    star 6
    If we modded every CR there would be madness. I am not saying that we can't trust all the CR's but there will always be a few bad apples that would abuse the status.
  10. DarthJurist Admin Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2000
    star 5

    The idea has merit, but I don't think it's going to get much support.

    To answer your question, the RSAs are either Moderators or Managers (depending on how long they have been around), while the GSAs are Admins.

    Mods can ban users, edit posts, delete posts, do IP checks and a few other things.

    However, only Managers can edit or create forum announcements, add user titles, adjust user privileges (access to private forums), and demote and promote users.
    Managers can also delete and create forums.

    (I have no idea what special tools Admins have, but I can only guess.)

    Thus to do many of the edits to your forums, you have be a manager, which also gives you access to tools that can cause a lot of damage. There is currently no way to restrict which Mods/managers can do what in what forums, so if you have the tools in FF, you have them everywhere.

    Another consideration is that mods of all kinds are chose by current mods taking into consideration posting habbits and their track record here at FF/JC. On the other hand, FF chapters elect their CR's. At the moment, there are very few restrictions on how can be CR, but there are much stricter guidelines on who can be an RSA. Thus, in giving you more autonomy by granting the power to take care of your own forum, we would have to be much, much stricter when approving CR's - thus imposing more restrictions. So you would gain and loose at the same time.

    And I'm sure that Kadue or someone will be able to say something about the security issue.

    ~H~
  11. Night4554 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 9, 2000
    star 5
    I didn't know that CR's had to talk to their RSA's a whole lot about inappropriateness on the boards. I thought it was a once-in-a-blue-moon type occurance.

    ¤Night
  12. Jedi_Satimber Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 3, 2002
    star 8
    no....CR's, from what I have been told...are very active with TF.N & the RSA's and such.

    that is why I feel that yes, Mod powers should be granted.
  13. DarthJurist Admin Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2000
    star 5
    Night, it depends a lot on the region, the forum, and the CR (and sometimes the phase of the moon). There are times when there may be infighting in two or three of my cities and I'm up to the wee hours of the morning trying to make everyone play nice. Then there are weeks when all I need to do is put up announcements, post meeting announcements, read the forums and respond to PMs. Some CR's PM about once a week with requests, some I rarely hear from. There is also the CR forum, where RSA?s and CR?s discuss issues/questions/ideas.

    FF forums are full of people that meet up in real life, so there is a heavy emphasis on encouraging people to work together and to reach mutually beneficial solution to personality conflicts or misunderstandings. RSA's work not only with the users at issue, but also the group's leadership. Each FF Chapter defines the CR position a bit differently and has it?s own personality. With some FF Chapters, I pass along info to the CR, and he/she deals with the person. In other forums, I take care of it myself, and leave the CR a PM.

    It's a lot more work than simply banning someone, and at times a lot more draining. But it?s worth it when you see a group develop and stand on it?s own and start planning events.

    ~H~

    edit/grammar
  14. Night4554 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 9, 2000
    star 5
    That's one of the best posts I've seen on the boards. Thanks for clarifying. :)

    ¤Night
  15. Sebulba-X •X C2 C3 MW RSA•

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2000
    star 6
    Even if the multitude of new mods and the basic reorganization of FF Admin staff could be digested properly, (it would be messy, but it could be done) we're still stuck with this particular game & playing field. Since we're not able to restrict the modding abilities to one place, which also includes being able to view user IP addresses & hosts of both FF & JC members alike (I'm not a hacker or identity thief, so I'm not sure what you could do with that info anyway, but it's worrisome to those who know more about it's potential), the Staff would be responsible for both the good and bad apples. Promoting RSAs is a process that is looked at very carefully and taken pretty seriously here, and it wouldn't become any less so if we had to do it 150 times for each forum. Us having to choose a mod effectively takes control of that choice out of the hands of the group, which would be a bad thing imho.

    New boards and/or an upgrade that allows us to give each forum it's own mod, I'll be the first in line to get that process going.
  16. Jedi_Satimber Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 3, 2002
    star 8
    wow...that is a very good point....makes me wonder.

    How could IGN be upgraded to have these abilities?
  17. Spike_Spiegel Former FF Administrator Former Saga Mod

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2002
    star 6
    That is an extremely good point for which I agree completely.

    Given the sheer numbers of CRs it is likely that one or some may go "bad."

    I hadn't thought of it that way.

    There is a problem I've seen, which really has nothing much to do with this, but it was in my mind when I wrote my last post, RSAs usually have a heck of a lot of forums to oversee, usually more than the mods in the rest of the JC. One of the jobs of the CRs is to help out the RSA with the moddining of their region by keeping tabs on their own forum. Which works out great, but there are some regions that have lots of forums that aren't official chapters so they don't have CRs and RSAs are the only modding force. My thinking last post mentioned giving CRs some sort of mod powers to make the RSAs job easier so they can concentrate on forums that don't have CRs and are in the process of organizing.

    However, the points raised here have completely changed my mind and I do think that mod power should stay where it is, with the RSAs. But I do suggest upping the quantities of RSAs. I don't know how it is in all the regions (should check but I'm too lazy right now :D ) but some regions have just one RSA for 5, 6, 7 or even more boards that they have to be watching constantly. There is such a thing as an overworked RSA, believe me.

    And I just realized I've been going on for a while and I have to do some stuff and I am not really making any sense anymore so I'll stop here.

    Now, where did I put that monkey wrench. . .
  18. Sebulba-X •X C2 C3 MW RSA•

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2000
    star 6
    Multiple mod coverage has been on the rise actually. Some regions needed it, others got it when we promoted a couple RSAs to the GSA position and then filled the empty slots with new RSAs, and then there's always some JC mods who join FF or FF members who are promoted to a JC mod positions hanging around and available to take care of troll-type emergencies. I think for a while the unintentional mindset was one RSA per region, but we've thankfully moved away from that as the demands of the region increase. We want to enjoy the forums when we can too. ;)

    edit:
    Also keep in mind that if you are having problems contacting your RSA, you can contact any of us to help in their abscense or have you/your CR post something in the CR forum requesting help from whomever.
  19. Master Salty Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 18, 1999
    star 6
    I'm not an expert by any means, but I would think phpBB could handle a board this size. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
  20. Night4554 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 9, 2000
    star 5
    I thought so too, but to quote PreacherBoy from memory (and I have no reason not to trust him on this, he's quite the techie) "I've seen phpBB lag like hell when running a board that had 1 million posts".

    Or something like that. The biggest phpBB board I can find is phpBB.com and while that goes pretty fast, I think they have both an extremely fast connection, and i'm caching a lot of their images and whatnot.

    I dunnoe for sure though.

    ¤Night
  21. Master Salty Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 18, 1999
    star 6
    Thanks for the answer, Night. Maybe some of our techies here at the JC could combine their efforts and create a board system.
  22. Night4554 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 9, 2000
    star 5
    Heh, I think it would need to fall under a copious amount of discussion amoung core staff, mods, and fanforce about whether to switch. But As far as I know, FanForce could decide to switch to phpBB on their own. But then the issues arise of phpbb's lack of built in capacities along the lines of Collapsing categories, and not having an in-between rank of mod-admin.

    ¤Night
  23. LordJedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 15, 2001
    star 4
    Heh, I had just remembered another board having a format I liked, www.americasarmy.com, and I was just going to post that maybe phpBB could do what you're looking for when I noticed a couple of people have just mentioned it.

    I'm not sure how many posts or users they have over there, but they don't seem to be to slow.

    Even though it may not have the features we're looking for, it's released under the GPL. That allows us to download the source and change it to fit our needs. I'm personally going to take a look at the code and see how complex it is and how hard it would be to modify it. I am by no means a code guru and I am quite a lazy person, so I probably won't be able to look at it for several weeks.
  24. Night4554 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 9, 2000
    star 5
    I checked it out, look at the bottom message:

    Source modified from phpBB by HomeLAN
    Copyright © 2000 - 2003 HomeLAN


    It's a modified phpBB 1.4

    ¤Night
  25. Spike_Spiegel Former FF Administrator Former Saga Mod

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2002
    star 6
    A friend of mine just started a webpage (anigaming.com) they programmed their own message board. It looks ok, but I don't think it will just hold the sheer number of members this board has. I think this board works fine as it is.
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