Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by darthanku, Sep 18, 2004.
The credibility and Maul.
What about... meeeee?
I'm sure you did.
Like Kenobi at the destruction of Alderaan.
George: So I have this great idea. We bring back Maul.
Dave: But, he was cut in half.
George: That's alright. He walked out on his two hands
Dave: Oh.......great. Great!
Thousands of miles away:
Sx3 grabs himself and stumbles over to a chair. One of his buds comes over to him.
Sith bud: Are you alright?
Sithie: I felt a great disturbance in the Force. Like a million screenwriters crying out in terror and were suddenly silenced. I feel something terrible has happened.
Sith Bud: (rolling eyes) when will you get over it? Maul is dead! He's not coming back!
That would be: Sith Slaying Bud
And yeah, that's pretty much how it went.
I figured at least part of the reason was, Lucas or Filoni saw that comic strip in Star Wars Visionaries, and liked it enough to use the idea- possibly with some changes.
Well, according to the Rule of Two, he had to die in order for Vader to eventually come into the scene, but that's getting a little technical.
I do agree that he could have easily blocked Obi's strike. I mean really, Maul just literally stood there. I guess the brilliance of Obi's saber hypnotized him for a brief moment.
Oh yeah, I don't think Maul should have lived long enough to cause a Rule of Two issue with Anakin becoming Vader. I just don't think he needed to die in TPM and get replaced by Dooku in AOTC. So Maul should have lived through AOTC, acting as an enforcer for Sidious (and his apprentice) while Dooku was Sidious' main Separatist politician (in charge of the others like Nute Gunray). Then Maul faces Anakin on the Invisible Hand (Grievous' ship) in ROTS, and Anakin kills Maul. Then later Obi-Wan can tell Padme "Anakin became Palpatine's new apprentice after the death of Count Dooku Darth Maul".
Now this theory I like!
Ray actually had the saber in the correct hand, ready for the block. It was digitally altered so Maul could die! Or something.
There's no such thing as a perfect world. And I don't know if writing all 3 movies at once is a good idea. In fact, I don't think any of us really know whether Lucas had written the first draft for all 3 movies at once. I'm not saying that he did, but I'm not saying otherwise.
I don't see how this would have improved the movie. Perhaps it would have improved it for you. But I guess I don't see what you wanted for the film.
It's a nice alternate story, but I don't see it as an improvement.
However, I still believe that deep down, many wanted Maul to survive for superficial reasons. He seemed "cool" as a villain. Which would explain why many old time fanboys tend to view ANH's Vader as the ultimate STAR WARS villain.
I'll take "nice alternate story", haha. I frankly don't make too many posts in the threads that pop up about "ways we would improve the movies", because we got what we got and I'm mostly happy with them as they are. So this example stands as an alternate that I've only thought about again recently because of Maul's BS return on TCW... partly because we got what we got before and now the people who made that decision in the first place are the same ones going back on it and changing their minds.
The point of Maul's death, the way it was staged, was to set up the end of the Ani/Obi ROTS fight. It never really bothered me & I was pleased to see that it did eventually pan out ("Don't try it Anakin, I have the higher ground!") but ultimately Maul had to be swept under the rug or there wouldn't be any escalation of threat in AOTC. Just as Vader goes from being a dark knight to the hero's father, we needed a bigger baddie for AOTC. Bringing back Maul, intact, would not have been a challenge for Obi, and for Ani to defeat Maul would seem out of place, and also not much of a challenge. That's why Maul is partially brought back via occult means & paired with Savage in the series, to up the ante.
I am not 100% opposed to Maul returning, being as Old Wounds and Resurrection were very good stories detailing his return/survival.
The thing with Maul is it almost is a doubled edged sword(no pun intended) if he lives.
Part of what makes Maul MAUL is the mystique his character carries. We dont know much about him, his origins, his life and motivations even.
We just know he's bad and are able to paint our own picture of evil unto his blank canvas.
Frankly, his impact has been huge. And that might be partly because we, the audience, are projecting our own ideas about what he is unto him. We make him mythical.
So while I have for ages argued Lucas should have done more with him across the PT, I'm not sure I feel the same way now, with the exception of little bits and pieces of additional scenes in TPM(like a few bits in the novel and some of the stuff Lucas had him doing and saying in the revised rough draft).
Yeah, he was quite perceptive in the revised rough draft.
Although I theorized above about a way they could have had Maul survive until ROTS, this is also a good point. Maybe it was better for him to die when he did at the end of TPM, but they could have made up for that by showing some more scenes with him in TPM. But even that would have had to be done carefully, because I actually think his seldom-speaking persona as it stands in TPM is much better for him than the oft-speaking persona he has now on TCW. He won't shut up sometimes on TCW, and it makes me miss the mostly quiet, threatening, and mysterious aura he had in TPM.
I would've enjoyed if Darth Maul basically took Dooku's place throughout I-III. Then, the role of Separatist leader could be played by a different character, not a sith, who is killed by Sidious in ROTS. I did enjoy the fact that Darth Maul was killed in TPM, but I felt like with such a strong character, we could've gotten...more of him. (OTHER than TCW, which was done well, but was IMO the biggest cop-out plot twist in history )
I thought Darth Maul would the 'Darth Vader' of the prequel trilogy so when he was killed I was quite shocked. I thought he could be the Supreme Commander of the Droid Army aka Grievous' position and have someone like Tarkin be Count Dooku's position.
It does seem however that George Lucas regrets killing him off otherwise he wouldn't have brought him back in the Clone Wars.
It would have been very cool to see Maul in AOTC and ROTS, but if he hadn't died in TPM the movie wouldn't have been as good since the Jedi wouldn't have defeated anyone, and the biggest victory in the movie would have gone to Anakin and the Gungans with the Trade Federation.
But what would have been really cool would have been Obi-Wan and Anakin going to get the Chancellor on Grievous' ship, and instead of the Chancellor saying "Dooku...", he could have said "He's returned..." then they turn around and see Maul standing there with his robotic legs, that would've been so cool! And of course they defeat him there and they defeat Dooku somewhere else.
In that aove scenario (ROTS), fans who wanted more Maul would be complaining why was he brought back only to die.
I wonder if GL really did regret it (he was the one who wanted Maul decisively dead) or if it was in response to "the fans."
I would've wanted to see Maul survive up until ROTS, and have Anakin kill him when he turns to the dark side.
Maybe the Seperatist Leader could of been tarkin and he could have been spared by Palpatine in the end
So much tension that would have had, giving in to revenge over Qui Gon's death.
Darth maul wasn't a very good villain anyway. His skin was red, he looked too devilish and scary, to the point that it was cheesy. Vader is a cool villain. He has a burned, bald, pale face behind a samurai helmet with a deep robotic voice and mechanical breathing. That's creative. Maul was filler.
The thing I really dislike about Maul coming back in TCW is that it really undermines the decision of promoting Obi Wan to knighthood in TPM. Almost like it was a test the Jedi council THOUGHT he passed, but, oh-wait-he really didn't!!
Also, it nullifies the greatness of the point that Obi Wan was the first Jedi to kill a Sith in 1000 years...