PT Should Darth Maul have lived?

I don't think Maul should have died, but he did. Though what is strange is that Obi, had to use the dark side to do it. He was not calm, he was angry, and the jedi did not sense it, not even Master Yoda. I understand if my master was killed by,(my favorite character), I too would be upset.

 

no maul should not have died. maul should have been sidious' apprentice for the entire pt. it would have created better continuity of characters,,like in the ot. imagine maul in dookus role in aotc. that would have ROCKED..

 

The fact that Obi Wan struck Maul down "with all of his hatred" could have meant a slippery dark side path for the bearded one were Sidious in attendance. Maul is part of the quartet of baddies who hold motif traits that are eventually all absorbed by Darth Vader.
Maul is a malevolent monster, a demonic entity in look, and represents the primitive, predatory nature of Vader. Jango Fett is a killer and a father, representing Vader's ultimate tragi-heroic duality. Dooku is Vader's pomposity and cold reason. The cape is a good reference point there, providing both status and ominous shielding of the truth.
Grievous is more machine than living creature. With all these prototype baddies, both in look, behaviour and effectiveness, Sidious learns how to create the ultimate, but ultimately servile, dark lord.

 

YYZ-2112,
This gives his master the motivation needed to begin manipulating Anakin to succeed him as his apprentice.

Which he could have started to do as Palpatine while still keeping Maul as Sidious. He would then set up the showdown to occur in ROTS.

 

While I think Darth Maul was an awesome villan and as sinister as they come, I do think he should have died. It helps show how powerful and important Obi-wan is as a Jedi; he's the first Jedi in 1000 years to defeat a Sith Lord, after all. I just think that defeating Maul really is important for Obi-wan's character.

Also, IMO, I don't think GL wanted to create too powerful a villan in the PT, because it would really take away from Vader in the OT. Essentially, I don't think he wanted to have a villan become better than Vader (or Palps) because the story requires Palps/Vader to be the greatest villans of the saga.

 

Also, IMO, I don't think GL wanted to create too powerful a villan in the PT, because it would really take away from Vader in the OT.

Except he already did that with making Sidious this omniscient figure in control of everything, even what the jedi eat for breakfast.

It diminishes Vader.

 

the stronger they made Maul the better it would be. If no jedi could beat maul then when anakin finally defeats him it just goes to show you how much stronger Vader is. And why the Jedi should fear him.

Obi wan fights maul in episode 1 and looses
then rematch in episode 2 and looses.
so would anakin loose in episode 2.
Yoda would be stronger then maul, but like dooku, maul would threaten obi and anakins life to force yoda to stop fighting.
but in episode 3 when anakin/vader kills maul we'll know just how strong anakin has become.

The bottom line is, George Lucas is not perfect. There is nothing wrong with saying how he could of made the movies better. Even though there is nothing 'wrong' with the way he made them, that doesn't mean that there is no way that he could of made it better.

 

"Except he already did that with making Sidious this omniscient figure in control of everything, even what the jedi eat for breakfast.

It diminishes Vader."

Uh, which is why I mentioned Palps in the very next sentence. Like I said, I don't think GL wanted to make villans greater than Vader AND Palpidious.

 

No, the depiction of Palps in the prequels diminishes Vader, not in ROTJ.

 

Right! He was such an awesome villian. He should have remained at Sidious's side until Vader cleaned his clock. Then became the next apprentice to Sideous.
I wonder if his corny voice pushed him out of the picture? Even the voice-overs in TPM were poorly done.

What I don't get is how Sideous seems to be two different people. With the cloak up he puts on great-gradma's uncleaned dentures and ages 1000 years. Without the cloak as Palpatine his skin clears up remarkably! What gives?

 

YEs he should have died, but not the way he did.

Dooku is much cooler as a "Sith politician". He has class, a thing Maul doesn't have. Maul is a beast, a killer. Dooku is a dreamer, a manipulator, a traitor.

 

It would have been nice if they developed a main villain for the PT. Maul or Dooku could have been a constant threat to the Jedi only to be killed in ROTS. One of the main weaknesses of the PT is an absence of a consistent villain. The OT had Vader, while the PT has bit roles from the TF, Maul, Sidious, the Separatists, and Dooku. Nobody is given the chance to have a commanding presence.

 

Darth Maul didn't 'have' to die, but it served the story well, insofar as Episode I can stand alone as a film similarly to Episode IV. Lucas even stated that the reason he 'digitally' cut Maul in two as he fell was to end any speculation that he might have survived, to definitively say 'this character is gone'.

And the whole point is that Darth Sidious loses his apprentice. Had Maul survived, Sidious would probably never have looked to Anakin as a potential Sith, and the story would have evolved differently, to a point where Maul would get over his obviously zealous devotion to his master, and start plotting against Sidious so as to usurp him. Maul taking Anakin as an apprentice would make an interesting 'what if?'.

It is clear Sidious is using Count Dooku as a stop-gap, just as Dooku is no doubt using Sidious in a quest for power. Sidious knows Dooku would ultimately seek to replace him - I believe Dooku's plea to Obi-Wan to join him is genuine, so as to 'destroy the Sith'. Remember, Dooku is disillusioned with the Republic and believes there's a better way, with him in charge - he is not a Jedi-hater.

However, neither Maul nor, probably, Anakin would have managed to sway systems against the Republic as Dooku did, and in so doing causing the Clone Wars, therefore he served his Master well. Having done this, he becomes dispensable. Sidious looks to Anakin, and later to Luke. Vader too turns to Luke, and his immediate reaction to the discovery of a daughter is to turn her to the Dark Side instead.

Also, back to Maul's death, he didn't die in a pathetic way - sure, you can say Obi-Wan jumped slowly from the pit, but he had been disarmed. Darth Maul wasn't to know Obi-Wan would reach out through the Force to take Qui-Gon's lightsabre mid-leap. If anything Obi-Wan went down pretty easily to Dooku in Episode II. I would have loved if Dooku had taunted him for failing Qui-Gon, or mockingly praised him for being the only living Jedi to vanquish a Sith warrior, something along those lines. Something to have made Obi-Wan lose his focus, just as his emotion allowed Darth Maul to gain the advantage in Episode I. It's a pity, because Obi-Wan's counter to Dooku's Force lightning was evidence of his power as a Jedi. Maybe he was tired after the arena battle. Off-topic, but maybe worth a thread of it's own.

 

Ok, now, before you all cut me down with your, I'd like to say something. Before I totally attack TPM, I want you all to know that even though I hate it, it is way better than any other Non-SW Movie.

SW Movies = 10,000,000,000
TPM = 5,000,000
Others = 5

Now, the first thing I hate about it is the uselessness of the story. I am a BIG fan of obscure little characters that you see just for a second. Droopy McCool is why I know all about Kirdo III, the Kitonaks, the festival of life, the chooba, and other obscure Kitonak information. Instead of doing this, the main way to add different and new things in SW, George decided to add entire planets, starships, characters, races and civilizations that, as I see it, contradict with the SW culture used before. Just look at the difference between the YT-1300 and the Naboo Starfighter. Darth Maul and Imperial beaurocrats. Everything is too new, even the look and feel. Nothing is rough and tough looking, or daunting, like in the older SW Movies. Instead, everything is shiny! I emphasize again the YT and the Naboo starfighter. I'm not saying that this is a bad thing, its just way too new for me and my old-fashioned ways. To me, Darth Maul is a part of this big crowd-pleasing change. Instead of characters with mocking attituded, sarcasm, depth, and ambition, we just see some villanous action-figure that would be better suited to batman than SW. The only good new thing was the Trade Federation. I think it was consistent with old SW.

 

"Everything is too new, even the look and feel. Nothing is rough and tough looking, or daunting, like in the older SW Movies. Instead, everything is shiny! I emphasize again the YT and the Naboo starfighter."

An elegant weapon for a more civilized time. For over a thousand generations the Jedi Knights were the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic. Before the dark times, before the Empire.

The "used universe" look of the OT absolutley had to contrast with the PT, otherwise the fall of the republic is meaningless.

 

Well, I know, but it also contrasts games such as KOTOR, the comic series, the tales of a jedi books, and many other eary republic series. In my ideal SW, TPM and Clone Wars would be like KOTOR, and less shiny and gunganish. Just my opinion though--I'm not saying I'm right.

 

Jmaster Luke, I actually was proposing two scenarios's, one in which dooku is a pure politician, and the second (with the duels) where after mace's death at mauls hands leaves the order thinking dooku and maul are apprentice and master. This would be very sidious like, sneaky and deceptive. Since sidious has already broken one rule of the sith order by breaking secrecy and revealing the sith to the jedi, he would break the rule of two as well, the better to suit his own ends.

Also, great points by everyone, especaially 44. I especially like the fact that Yoda's ability's should not have been revealed until ep 3. Just like Sidious's ability should not have been revealed until the very end. (assuming that maul killed mace in ep 2).

Just imagine, the jedi order lies in ruins, obi-wan goes to confront anakin, while Yoda goes to confront Sidious. Yoda and Sidious have a long monologue, and then they have a spectacular duel of both force and saber, that leaves the council chamber a heap of twisted metal.

As it is, the technology for ep 3 has advanced so far that a truly spectacular duel involving cgi yoda and cgi ian mcdiarmid (and his double with ians face on his body, like the duel with chris lee was done) would be possible. In atoc the technology was too raw, and it really showed, especially with chris lee. Even though they superimposed lee's face onto the stunt double, it was still to rough and they had to rely more on far shots for more spectacular moves.

 

I read some time ago of an interview with Ray Park in December on starwars.com Hyperspace. Did anyone read this interview and know what was discussed?

 

palpatine made sure he had a kick ass apprentice in maul prior to making his initial move to sucker his way into power and eliminate the jedi. he probably felt maul was too skilled for any jedi, and a unique style (dual bladed sabre)that they could not adapt to. in fact, maul took out both QGJ and OB1 easily once they were separated. maul got overconfident and when OB1 made his last move, old horny head was caught in a moment of disbelief. he hesitated, shocked that this padawan just did something unexpected, and that hesitation cost him his life. someone got lucky in that fight.

as for dooku, he owned OB1 and Anakin in thier dual.
dooku's purpose....

was to be the threat that the republic and the jedi would see, instead of the true threat
palpatine orchastrated the trade federation attack on naboo and the seperatist movement led by dooku in order to get his clone army made. palpy started a war against himself in order to get himself put into position to become emperor and to amass an army big enough to destroy any who would rebel against him. faking an assasination attempt on padme in AOTC so that she would flee to naboo leaving an idiot named jar jar to vote for a clone army... priceless
sorry about the tangent there
maul needed to die folks, why else would palpy look for a new apprentice in young skywalker?

 

Maul's not dead. We think he is, but...he's not.

 

Arpil Fools or a spoiler?!

 

maul needed to die folks, why else would palpy look for a new apprentice in young skywalker?

Why would he if he had Dooku? because Anakin is stronger.

And no one is saying Maul didn't have to die, but when he died.

He should've lived until he met his match in Anakin.

 

Yeah he had to die for the plot etc etc.


Just the Way he died was just not plausible...Obi a padwan, come on I dont care if he was angry...What do the sith do? They get angry and are trained at it!! If Maul Killed qui-gon he would have no problem with obi..
This is the way it should have been:...Obi jumps up "fast as hell" merely catching maul of guard and coming within inches of him or slicing him a bit..Maul panics and flees...Sidious being a sith, an angry hell of one at that, kills him in a fit of rage for his failure and cowardice..thats a bit more plausible...even better obi runs instead! And sidious still kills maul for his failure to capture him and messing up his plans,...It would just make a better scene come on!!

 

Billy dee binks quote:

Arpil Fools or a spoiler?!

Spoiler...Visionaries book coming out tomorrow...an excerpt I saw of it on Amazon.com. Quite interesting. Enough that I bought the book which is a comic and I usually only buy novels.

 

Actually if you read the book Maze Of The Sith, Darth Maul was not killed. The sepretist found him bearly alive and rejuvinated him, and turned him into a half cyborg half Maul kinda thing. Then eventually Anakin kills him out of anger. (Qui-Gon's death)