Discussion in 'Literature' started by StarWarsFan91, Oct 6, 2017.
I would rather we see new all new stuff or explore other concepts in the universe.
Vader hated the Sith and wanted to bring order to the galaxy which is against their code. He was a Dark Jedi who just had the title.
Palpatine also brought 'order' to the galaxy, and Vader never went against him for 20 years. Even when he went against him, he just wanted to replace him as the Sith Lord. Vader never hated the Sith, no more that Palpatine or Dooku, who both plotted to replace their masters/apprentices.
Now Maul you could argue became a former Sith after his apparent death on Naboo and replacement.
As someone who loves stories involving Sith lords from Tales of the Jedi all the way through Bane, Plagueis and into Legacy I think yes they should be brought back eventually but they should do this slowly and be careful in their usage. The Sith should be the ultimate bad guys and shouldn't be the go to for every story arc needing a villain, they should be used sparingly but with maximum impact.
Firstly of course as Ben said they first need (and should) bring back the Jedi as a fully reborn order, different from the Old Republic obviously but still recognisably them, they also need to be given space to grow and have an impact. If they do bring back the Sith I'd like them to go the route of a Jedi/Force user discovering forgotten Sith relics/temples etc, delving too deeply into this they eventually fall completely and through Sith Holocrons and similar lore devices the Sith are reborn.
I strongly disagree.
I just don't see Vader having any truck with the Sith way.
They have already stated that Maul was more than just a weapon trained in the Force. He was fully educated in politics, military tactics, etc...Was he as powerful as Sidious...No. But with his training and knowledge he could have been in the position that Bane was when he created the Rule of Two. If Maul had just bided his time and accumulated more power in the background he could have continued the Sith line after Endor. But he was miffed at Sidious's betrayal and let that drive him.
I'm of the Once a Sith, Always a Sith belief. Just because Sheev said he was not does not make it so...it does not take away all the training.
I mean, yeah, Maul was basically trying to start his own faction of Sith, distinct from Sidious and the Bane line. He explicitly refers to the Sith in Rebels as having taken everything from him, his mother, brother, etc.
I think at this point
a rebirth of the Jedi and the Sith is inevitable sooner or later it will happen
If Kylo Ren is not a sith
there will already be someone who claims the title of dark lord for himself
To those who ask what the difference is between Kylo Ren and the Sith, remember that Richard Spencer doesn't call himself a Klansman.
No. If we want Sith stories, there are thousands of years' worth of Sith history prior to the movie era that can be explored. Let the Sith themselves die at Endor and move on to something else.
I think it requires more than saying you're a Sith to be one. Kylo Ren reveres Darth Vader but he's a student of a man who isn't a Sith and he has his own group.
If the Knights of Ren are Darth Vader fanboys who dress like him and say they want to bring ORDER to the galaxy, they're a distinct group.
I can't declare myself an ancient Egyptian.
Right now we don't know poodoo about Snoke other than his Sith-like dark side powers. For all we know Disney has conjured up a back story that ties him to the Sith. Someone had to train him.
I agree that if Snoke isn't a Sith, then maybe Kylo can't become a Sith. However, I see this as only being a problem if some actual real Sith were running around to challenge Snoke and the Knights of Ren.
Without actual Sith, nothing is stopping Snoke and friends from recreating the Sith. People on the outside aren't going to know the new Sith don't know everything the old Sith does. In the real world, people recreate stuff all the time--the new Olympics are just events based in name on the original Greek Olympics, for instance, with not much actual continuity between them.
Two of my biggest pet peeves with Legends were:
The Sith are killed off "for real this time" only to be brought back more often than the Daleks from Doctor Who.
It invalidates Vader's sacrifice. Now I know the Chosen One prophecy wasn't made until the Prequels, so I can't blame authors for not knowing what Lucas had in mind. But at the same time, there's a big difference between "Vader restored balance to the Force by killing Palpatine" and "Vader restored balance to the Force by causing the first of Palpatine's many deaths". Not to mention all the other Sith that popped up, making it seem like the Force was "balanced" for only 5 minutes.
That being said, one of my major pet peeves with the New Canon is that even if we're told the Knights of Ren, First Order, and Resistance are different from the Sith, Empire, and Rebel Alliance, we're not really shown this. Kylo and Snoke have all the trappings of Sith and might as well be Sith. (Though I have a theory that Kylo is the only one of the Knights of Ren that has a lightsaber, and if true it would go a long way to making them distinct). People say that the First Order is more fanatical than the Empire, but the way I see it both groups were oppressive dictatorships that brainwashed children and destroyed planets, so I don't really see the FO as being notably more extreme. The Resistance is probably the most different. Sure I'm not a fan of the unoriginal name or logo (or shoving the New Republic to the side), but at least they're playing up a strained peace, Cold War dynamic between the Resistance, FO, and New Republic.
But anyway, back to Sith and Dark Jedi. IMO the Sith should remain extinct, because it makes Vader's redemption and killing of Palpatine more special. Now Star Wars just wouldn't be Star Wars if there weren't lightsaber duels, so I expect we'll always have Dark Jedi of some sort. I'm even fine if they keep the black robes and red sabers. I just want them to make them different from the Sith in some way that isn't just lip service. Either make them more visually distinct, or change their creed/motivation. The EU had various dark side cults (though admittedly they were all pretty similar), maybe take one of those ideas and develop it a bit more.
Get rid of the Sith. Sith Lite are just as bad. Let's keep Star Wars fresh.
That's kind of the attitude that's the problem. Why not have distinct other groups of Darksiders?
Klingons AND Romulans AND Cardassians.
Because the Romulans don't put butts in seats like Klingons do. Nemesis proved that pretty conclusively; and those WEREN'T Romulans in the reboot...
Because kylo is established as wanting to be just like his grandfather. If his characteristics were different, I'm all for him being non sith.
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Yes, but that's the thing...Kylo WANTS to be and CAN'T.
Who says he can't? I'd like our villain to be an arrogantly self-proclaimed Sith Lord.
Well, that's the thing, Kylo Ren's whole thing is he is a fake. He can't be a Sith Lord because he doesn't have the stones.
He's a wannabe and a poseur.
You take that away and he's not nearly as interesting a character.
A visual analogy:
If anyone can find a holocron and/or call themselves a "Sith", being a "Sith" is meaningless. Besides, it would raise the question of why that never happened during the 1000 years in between the Sith's "extinction" and TPM.
Yeah, there's nothing preventing Kylo from proclaiming himself a Sith Lord. No other Sith are around to tell him he's not really a Sith. He has carte blanche to start the Sith from scratch as he sees fit--as he tells his grandfather's helmet, "I will finish what you started."
The thing is, has it been established Kylo knows his grandfather was a Sith? Going by Bloodlines novel, Kylo didn't even know Vader was his grandfather until a few years before TFA. Kylo might not actually know Vader is a Sith or even what a Sith is! However, TFA Visual Guide indicates that Kylo patterned his lightsaber on the style of the Sith from the Scourge of Malachor--seems to indicate he at least knows who the Sith are?
The EU indicated tons of people proclaimed themselves Sith after finding a holocron--Exar Kun and Ulic Qel-Droma, Darth Traya and the Sith Triumvirate (after finding the Trayus Academy), Darth Krayt, and possibly Darth Ruin since he seemingly has no immediate predecessor granting him the title.
True this is EU, but presumably the same could happen in new canon. As for why this never happened in the millennium of Bane's line in hiding--the real Sith showed up to take down any self-proclaimed Sith. See Clone Wars microseries--Asajj tries to declare herself a Sith before Dooku knocks her down a peg, and then some.
Now, no real Sith are around to prevent Kylo from declaring himself a Sith. Like the EU's Exar Kun, Darth Traya, Darth Krayt, and Darth Ruin, he's free to do so.
This sounds like in the EU comics--in Star Wars Legacy the trio of Bane, Nihilus and Andeddu telling Krayt he's a fake (via holocron call). As Krayt tells them, they're dead and he's in charge now. Presumably Kylo can do the same to anyone calling him a fake Sith. Kylo's a poser? He's done more massive damage in one blow (destroying the capital of the Republic and reducing the new Jedi Order to just 1 member) than many Sith did in their entire lives in the thousand years pre-TPM.
In the EU Empire's End, some Sith Lord ghost on Korriban told Palpatine the same thing--he's a fake etc. Palpatine told them that they're dead--he's in charge now.
The Sith never left. Snoke and Kylo Ren are Sith. Whether they call themselves something different is irrelevant.
Sith = Dark-side force user, for all intents and purposes.